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This oral history is from an interview conducted by the Oral History cluster of the Landscapes of Injustice project.
What should we do?. He said,
You cancel it, and at the time I was going around with my wife. So we got married. My dad took the whole family to Thunder Bay, Fort Williams. And they went to a bush camp to work in a logging factory.So my wife and I got married in
oh my God, what did I get myself into?Later on a friend of mine phoned me, said
Sam, there is a job at a Jewish factory, a toy company.I said,
I don't care what it is, I'll take it.
You know Mr. Bayer, I would like to go on and become a dress cutter.He said,
No, no Sam, you're not going anywhere. You are working for me.I said,
But what am I going to do?So you had this fur supply business. In those days used to supply all the furriers across Canada with accessories, making into fur coats. So he put me in the store and I said,
What am I going to do Mr. Bayer?
You are going to work in the office, he said. So he sent me to school— to Shaw school on Bloor Street to take up typing, you know?
Mr. Bayer, this is not for me. This is ladies work. I want to move on.He said,
No, no, you aren't going anywhere.So he had a relative, an old spinster, Miss Hartman. She used to run the store. So he put her at the office and put me in charge of the store. So that's how I learned the fur business, the fur supply business. So I worked for him for about 14 or 15 years I guess. And what happened was— he had a brother-in-law, like they were partners. And I hate to say anything bad about anybody, but this particular partner— Mr. Bayer was too busy with his other businesses. So this Mr. Rodaman took over this fur supply business.
Where's my order? Cancel it, cancel it, cancel it, you know? And it got so bad, that his business started going down. And— oh, I didn't care. So he called me into his office. He said,
What's the matter Sam? You're not the same Sam anymore. What's happening?I said,
I won't tell you, but I am going to leave you after the summer holiday. So get someone in here. I'll train him for two, three months, and I'm gone.
No, no, no, you aren't goinghe said.
What happened?So I told him what happened. I said,
You know I used to work very hard for you. And last year what did you do? You cut my Christmas bonus. He went
Oh shit!and brings money out and I said
I don't want your money anymore. He said
That goddamn bookkeeper. I said
Don't say that. Who signs that cheque? You sign that cheque. I don't want your money.So I went for a summer holiday, came back— nobody there. I said,
Where is the new fellow I am going to train?He said,
No Sam, you aren't going to leave me. He gave me a raise before I go away, gave me a raise when I came back. But I said,
I don't want your money anymore. It kind of hurt me here.
You know Sam I am thinking of buying this business. I said,
Oh, go ahead, I'll work for you. He said,
No, no, no. I want you as a partner.So now, where am I going to get the money to buy this business? So I went to the bank, Mr. Bruce at CIBC that knew me for over 15 years. I asked him for a loan. He wouldn't give me a cent. He said,
How about your house?. I said,
No, no, I can't put that up. That is my wife's.I didn't want to lose my house. He didn't want to give me any loans, so I said, Ok, fine. I went to see Mr. Henry at
Oh, no worries.So he picks up the phone and phoned TD, Toronto Dominion, Mr. Clarkson. He said,
I have someone here looking for a loan.He said,
Send him over.Within half an hour I had my loan, all because of Mr. Henry. So we bought the business, and we started this fur supply business. Like any new business, it takes time to build up. For the first few years we were kind of in the red, so Mr. Cooper wasn't too happy. I said,
Don't worry, Howard, we are a new company, it will take 4, 5 years before we start making money.Sure enough, fourth year, we were in the black. Fifth year, more in the black. Mr. Henry also loaned me some money, my kid brother loaned me some money— and with the loan, we bought the business. So after a while, I paid Mr. Henry back, and then I had people in Japan order a beautiful Japanese kimono for his wife. And oh, she was so happy. My kid brother, I paid him back and bought him a great big television. And then we were on our way. So unfortunately, in the fifth year, my partner Mr. Cooper had a massive heart attack and died. Boom, like that. Now, I'm right back where I started from. So I had one of my kid brothers come join me to look after the store, and joined him. So I had to go on the road selling. So I used to travel across Canada twice a year as a salesman. And fortunately for me, most of the fur stores we are owned by Jewish people, and they were very supportive of me.
You know what Sam, there's a flat rented on Dundas Street owned by— jeez, I forgot the name. It was store, a chicken store and a fish store that this man owned. We could rent the whole upstairs together and save on rent. So we decided to move. The Levenson's we're very unhappy to lose us, but, anyway, we moved into this place. He was very nice. Of course, sharing the apartment together we saved money. We didn't have too much money in those days. The funny part was, he had hundreds of chickens in the backyard. Because you know, the Jewish people had to sell the chicken live, have the rabbi, you know, bless it. So in the meantime, all these chickens, he said,
Take all the eggs you want. So we had free eggs and he had vegetables. Everything in the basement. Because what he used to do, being a chicken house, there used to be rats running around. And what he would do, he had a gun and pow,
You know what dad, as the kids grow up, they are all going to move out, and you'll be left on your own in Fort William. So why don't you all come toThey were working in a logging camp, all my kid brothers. Oh, they wereToronto ? Move toToronto . Buy a house inToronto .
You know Mrs. Cooper,if we close the business your husband is going to lose all his money, I'm going to lose money. So do me a favor, keep me in business.
You know what Sam, we have to keep you in business.Because after all, the other three businesses were Jewish.
But it's good to have competition so we're going to support you.So through the years they supported me. And eventually one closed, two closed, third closed and eventually I was the only one left. So until my retirement I ran this business. That's why I appreciate all these people that supported me through the years. I was able to survive. So I guess I know a lot of the Jewish life. I've been to bar mitzvahs, I've been golfing, all kinds of weddings. So to me, not only myself, a lot of the nisei, nisei is the second generation Japanese like us. They all went through the same thing. If it wasn't for the Jewish people, I don't know what would have happened to us. Nobody hired us, but all these nisei, they were hired by all the Jewish companies. There were all kinds of manufacturers, dress manufacturers, furriers. and what else were there? Cleaners. They all hired Japanese. They allowed us to start our life in Toronto. So I always appreciate what they have done through the years for the Japanese. That's my experience. I think Jewish people understand the hardship that the Japanese went through because they too themselves were discriminated through the years, right? So I think they understood our position. That's why they opened their arms to us. I think a lot of these people that I know, I think are gone now. See I'm going to be 89, next week. I'm going to be 89. So I imagine a lot of these people are gone too.
phew, he flicked it like this and hits my dad's paper. My dad waited for the guy to come back. He had a chunk of wood, waited, and
pfoo, shwoo, hit him on the head. Oh they got into a scrap. I said, oh, what's going to happen? I was shivering. But then nothing happened. It was instant, they stop picking on Japanese, because they knew they were going to fight back.
Do you know any Japanese looking for work?I said,
I'll tell you what. All the Japanese inThey were all working for Jewish companies. It was very hard to find anyone anyway.Toronto have very responsible, key positions in Jewish firms.
But if I do find anybody, I'll let you know.But inside I'm
Where were you when I needed a job?That's the way it was. These are the things that I can't forget. It stays with you. So, I don't know what else. You know I don't know what else I can tell you about my life. Mr. Beyer, I owed him a lot. He was just like a father to me. I used to work very hard for him. He knew it. This factory, upstairs, there was
Hi Mr. Bayer,
Hi Sam. All these guys— but he knew. So every so often Mr. Bayer would come over, he would give me 10, 20 dollars.
What's that for?
Take your wife out for dinner.
No, no, you pay me!
No, no. Take it!that's the way he used to treat me. He was very nice. Sadly he passed away. When you came to
You speak-a da' English?, you know how they speak? He was so upset. But you can't help it because it's the Japanese— American war. And they didn't know us, they didn't know what a Japanese looks like. Even my one other friend, when they were relocated to northern Ontario, they were all on the train and there was a whole bunch of people curious to see what the Japanese look like. So this Doug, he told me, he told everyone
Put your best suit onand they got off the train. One little boy came up to him and said
Mister, Mister, are you Japanese?He said,
Yeahand he said
No, you aren't Japanese.Why, why you say that?
Japanese eyes like that, bucktooth
So you mentioned, and I have heard other people mention this as well that, the Jewish community in. You know, the comedy. And he laughed, he told everyone. Oh that was so funny. So these innocent kids, they don't know what Japanese looks like. That's the comment he had. laughs
Hey Bill, he came running over.
Hey Sam, how you doing?I said,
You joined the army, eh?He said
Yeah.I said,
Good luck to you. He said,
Good luck to you, too. Where you going?I said
I don't know. A place calledWe didn't know where that was, where we were being shipped. So he said hi and go by. So I don't know what happened to him I hope he's still alive, you know? He joined the army. That was a nice experience to bump into him at the time. And then we got toKaslo .
Oh, you're Japanese?and they treat me so nice. So as I got to
Oh Mr. Baba, I heard you are out of business.I said
What?. We were told you were out of business. I said
No. And don't tell me I was going to get this across
Well I shouldn't do thatshe said. I said
Please do, this is my livelihood.She said it's your competition that told her I was out of business. So he got all the business at the time. And she was so upset, he will never get another cent of business from us. And I go to
You know, when I get back toBut I really didn't want to do it. But fortunately nothing came out of it, and when I came back I phoned and said forget it, it's done, forget it. Because I didn't want to screw up the thing, you know, because it's all Jewish people, right? And my Jewish competitor. So, drop it. That was a dirty trick. but sadly he lost all the business because of that. So you got back toToronto I want to a meeting of all of the furriers. I want to explain to you what happened.
Sam, when you retire would you sell me this business? Would you make sure that I get this business?I said
Sure, Elio, don't worry. I'll make sure that you get the first priority.So it happened they had to close, they closed up. And I was 64 at the time. And he came to see me.
Sam, remember the promise that you made me about this business?I said,
Oh yeah, don't worry, you are still going to get it.He said,
No, I want it now.You know the company folded up. He had nowhere to go. and he worked on this business all his life more or less, from his young age. So I talk to my wife I said what should we do? At the time the fur business was kind of going down. And all kinds of bad action against the furriers, you know? Killing animals and stuff like that, so the fur business was going down.
You know what Sam, maybe it is a good time to retire.So I was hoping to work till 65, but I said okay. I called Elio in and said
Elio, you know what to do.I took stock of the whole thing. I said,
I don't want no goodwill. What I want you to do, everything in this store pay me cost price. I'll show you the cost and you can have it. No goodwill.So I sold him the business and then he was running it for a few years. Then I didn't know what to do after I retired at 64. Too old to look for another job. So time just flew like that, boom boom boom, before I turn around 5 years gone, 10 years gone. So I have no regrets. So that's how I got rid of my business and he was happy. He and his wife were in the store, carried on my business. He was the only fur supply store in Toronto. So, that's my life.
oh my God, I didn't know it was her. Yeah so I got a picture with her. How would you like this connection, the legacy between Japanese Canadians and Jewish Canadians to be remembered in future generations? Oh yeah, we talk about it. My sons— my daughter's gone now, I lost her two years ago, she had cancer. So I only have my son. So a lot of the young people know the connection to the Jewish people. How we came about and how you guys came about. And even this Mr. and Mrs. Levenson, when my son came, she used to cook fish and stuff like that. Treat us like family. I think they're both gone now, sadly. I doubt very much if any of these people are in the business today.