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This oral history is from an interview conducted by the Oral History cluster of the Landscapes of Injustice project.
Hey, they left out my mother!Oh no! At 437 Powell. And I said,
I hope they’ll fix it up, because it said empty!And I said,
Oh no, she had a beauty parlour there, and it was busy!We weren’t there long, but, you know, she was there. Was that the
That was our house. We weren’t there long.Yeah, the
Oh, we found you in a garbage can.
And we felt so sorry for you we brought you home!
Be gentle! Be gentle! Don’t love it so much and squeeze it too hard.And so on. But that was how it was.
You know,that it was, to have a new, a three year old and you’re trying to work at a beauty salon and as a dressmaker, that they said,
We would love to adoptShe says,Jean . And she would be always next door to you.
And she can come over as often as she wants,and so on. And they said that, you know, I guess they sensed that it would be economically very helpful to have the youngest one, who’s still running around, and you’re trying to do a hair dressing and dressmaking business, that it would have given her more time to devote herself to her business, and the three older children who were going to, going to you know, school. But she said,
No.She would love, that was very generous of her, but she said,
No, I’ll somehow manage.And I do think I spent quite a bit of time over at their house, because it was just next door. Do you remember their names? Yes,
Hey, we’re going for a walk, do you want to come?And so on. And when I was learning to ride a bicycle and so on, he would be the one that would, you know, made sure that it didn’t tip over. He’d run along on the sidewalk with me and so on. So, they were really a godsend. Yeah, that’s wonderful. It’s very important when you have young children, I think, to have neighbours who are supportive. Yeah, they were very, very kind. Where— are you speaking about the 1527 West 5th Avenue then? They were your neighbours in that home? Yes, yes. And in those days, there were very few Japanese in the so-called
No, we’re not going to any common bathhouse!
How do you bath?And we said,
In this galvanized. . .
How come you don’t come to our house, and use our bathhouse?And I said,
Oh, we’ve never bathed in public!And she says,
There’s nothing to it!And I said,
Oh.And she says,
Yeah, come!She says,
You won’t have to pay.
Come and check it out.So I finally went with her, and it was great, and nobody seemed to care. And so I went home and I said,
Hey, you know, it’s like our old bathhouse inAnd so I said and so she says,Vancouver , in theKitsilano house.
I went free.And I said,
It’s very nice,and we sat around and had a good time. And so I said to my sisters, who were older,
Why don’t you come with me and try it out, just to see how it is?So they finally went. And they said,
Oh, it’s much better than the galvanized tub, taking turns.And then you have to look after the water, get rid of it and everything. So after that, we all went. And its a good thing that I got accustomed to that, because the same thing when we got moved into the camps! Uh, my sister said,
Oh, you know, this is very public. And I’m not sure that I want to go.And so, there again, they went into the galvanized tub, and I was the one that had to go and get the water from the lake. Because we didn’t have piping then, water piping. And so I was the one that had to, you know, get the water for drinking, and so on. And being the youngest. And so I used to have this small bucket and make many trips back and forth. But we were in
I’ll walk you to your new school,and we’ve been friends ever since. And its nice that we all ended up, except for the one, the one girl that I met after I came to
We should petition the government for making us a school. If they just supply the building material.It’s amazing that everybody pitched in, and the government supplied the building material. And the elder men who were in the camp, because they were too old to go to work camp, they supervised the young men who were 16 and under, and its amazing that between the elderly men and the ones that were 16 and under, they built that whole school. It’s an amazing building, I’ve seen photos. Yeah. We just sat on benches, and it was a makeshift table, long tables. With a little plywood on top.
We will make sure that these children go through these lessons.And so, it was amazing that I was able to make up my year and a half of no schooling. My sister, sort of sat out
Look, if you’re having to leave, you better put all your hairdressing supplies and your equipment into our basement.Because they had a huge house and a huge basement which was, you know, bare. And so, they said,
There’s all kinds of room, so whatever you want to store, that means of value to you, put it in our basement.And so we had all the boys from the Ishi family come over and move everything, and put as much as they could into the—and it was all boxed into, into big boxes. And so we were very lucky that we could get rid of a lot of the stuff that went into their basement. And when we left they came to see us off, and said,
Don’t worry, no matter how long it takes, your things will not be touched. They’ll be, they’ll stay safe in our basement.And so, other than big furniture, like we had a lovely big oak dining room table that had lovely carved legs and so on? And we didn’t, it would take up too much room. And so, it was sold at next to nothing, and it, same with the piano. We had a, we had a large upright piano where all my sisters had gone to, gone to music school. And could play the piano. I was just starting and of course, once the piano was gone, I never got the opportunity. But my three sisters had gotten quite advanced in the piano. And it was a shame, but it was sold for next to nothing. But mother said,
It’s better than nothing.And so we were one of the lucky ones that,
She cannot be moved, because she’s critical, and we don’t even know if we can save her.Because in those days, they had no antibiotics or anything so, as a result of her being ill, we were one of the last to leave. Which really made a difference.
Well, we might as well sell what we can’t store in their basement.Because every morning, as the families were forced out of their house and they locked up their doors, I was just appalled that in the morning we wake up, and we’d open the door and look down the street and there was just a line. The full blocks. For blocks on end, were just filled with cars, trucks, and anything that would pull things behind a car. Trailers. And as soon as the family left and we all said goodbye to them, and they locked up, as soon as the people left,
Mommy, look at what they’re taking!And she’d say,
Stay back. Stay close.And because we were there, they didn’t touch our home. But on either side of us and all the way down the block, every block it was the same thing. They were stripped clean. Not a thing was left, because we would tour afterwards, and mother would cry and say,
Oh, look at the bathhouse. The only thing they left was the tub!Nobody wanted that!
You have to bring something that she will eat. Because she’s not eating the hospital food, and we can hardly get any fluids in her. And she, she won’t survive unless you come and force feed her.So every night, instead of closing at 5, she started closing the shop at 4, and she would make some gruel, with, soften the rice, and take a few things that she thought she would swallow, and so on. And because I was small, she felt that it would be best that she would not be approached as much, if I was with her. And so we used to, as soon as she had the food ready, she would take me and then she’d tell my sisters,
Stay in the house, keep it locked,and so on, until we came back. And at that time, some of the conductors were very prejudiced. And so if they saw an Asian looking person standing at the streetcar stop, if there was not a white Caucasian or somebody else standing there to wait for the streetcar, a lot of those conductors would not stop. They’d just go right by.
Look, if she doesn’t start eating and taking in some liquids, she’s going to die.And so they said,
You’ve got to keep coming.And finally after several weeks of that, they said,
Okay. This is going to be the critical Friday. If she doesn’t start showing signs and her temperature comes down, then she’s going to. . .But, he said,
Be prepared, she may not make it if she doesn’t perk up a bit.And that weekend, fortunately, they said,
Oh!when we walked in. The nurses all said,
Your sister’s temperature has come down, so we think she’s going to make it.Which was nice. That must have been a big relief. Yeah, it was a big relief. Yeah, so then, it was actually
Look, she may be on the mend, she’s made it around the critical spot,but, they said,
You have to let her stay until the doctors say she’s strong enough to travel.And that was why we were one of the last families to leave
There’s no way I am going to any war camp.And she says,
If you try and insist that we pick up and leave,she says,
I am going to write to England, and protest. Because I will assure you that he is not going to do anything to, to help the Japanese.So, she says,
Forget it!You know? The
That’s alright. We will make an exception, and we will make you accountable for his security, and that he’s, you know, does nothing to help the enemy sort of thing.
Okay, we’re going to row out into the Straits.Where all the big ships would come through. And she threw it overboard. Oh no! And so she says, she didn’t want to hand it in to, into the
Look, you know, these people are so unhappy and depressed,they said.
Don’t you think it would be a good idea if you let Mrs. Ikeda open up a beauty salon and that might perk up their spirits!And so they talked the
Okay, we’ll give you one room.
We would just be an added burden.So she said,
There’s no way we’re going back toWhich was a good thing, because a lot of people regretted what they did, by going back. And some of the children saidJapan .
Thank heavens!they were able to find their way back to
Hey, you know, here’s this fellow, mining all this copper and silver. And most of that is going back toSo he thought, that’s not right. And so he said, he offered, in those days, if you could believe, that he would buy the copper and silver mine off of him, and I think the offer was something like a million dollars. In those days! Wow, that’s a lot of money! Yeah for some unknown reason, granduncle said no, you know? It, he had it running well. And it was giving the Japanese young men to come out and make a living, and so on. And so he turned him down. And the fellow was so annoyed he went back toJapan .
Listen, here’s this foreigner, mining silver and copper out of the, out of the raw resources inand he was sure that most of the things were going back toCanada ,
That’s crazy. You should make sure that no, you know, no white person, other than a white person, should be taking resources out of the country.And so then, it was taken away. They took away the license. And he never got a cent. For what was up and running. Wow. And it’s still being mined today. That mine is still there. And as a result of his being, you know, up in that area, he became close to the Haida Indian chief, who really became very fond of him. And named, nicknamed him
Look, to survive inThey made him a snowshoe, taught him how to use it. They supplied him with a gun, and taught him how to shoot, because he had been a medical student when he was back inCanada , you must learn to use a snowshoe.
Oh, that’s grandpa’s folly!
Oh my dear.They said,
All of the people who wanted to get in,in 1951 when I graduated from Harbord Collegiate, they said,
You should’ve, you know, applied, like way back.
We certainly can’t take you on, because we’ve already filled up the class and everything.So, they said,
If you want to try for the next semester, year, they said we can fill out a
sheet, and you’ll have to take your chances, and send all your resume and so on.And so, that’s what I did. And in the meantime, I worked part time, and then I took some extra courses to fill in that year. And then, the funny thing was that they said,
What are your farm experiences?
Okay, all you 13 year old’s, we want people who are willing to go to these different farms, and help fruit picking.And so, when I was 12, I, at that time, I was sort of taller than average. And so, though I was 12, they took me because I looked
My uncle has a tomato farm, out in theAnd so she said,Okanagan . And its just outside ofKelowna .
If you want to go, we can go there and help out.And so, my mother said,
Oh, well, if you go with her—and she’s a little older than I was— so she said,
Then her uncle was farming there.So she said,
You can go.So, the next few years, I spent going out to the
Don’t worry, we will make sure that they get housing and everything, until they get on their feet.And fortunately, my oldest sister had finished hairdressing school also, and she was licensed. And so she came to
One of these days, when Lil gets well enough to, to travel, then,she said,
we’d like the whole family to reunite inshe said,Toronto . So,
as soon as you think that the two of you can find a suitable place and find a shop that we can, work in,she said,
let me know.Because of the Hiroshitas, we were allowed to bring in the hairdressing supply from her place, from her basement to our house. And then my mother had opened up a beauty shop in, in
Yes, that was a good idea.Because the ladies were much happier as a result of that. And in those days, there was not money, and most of the people that were there had large families, and they were getting food coupons. And so they say,
Oh, our kids don’t need all the butter coupons, or the sugar coupons and so on, or the meat coupon.And so no money changed hands, but there was always barter in food stamps. So we never went short on— Yeah, you ate well in camp!
Sure, if you want to give up your living room space to open up a shop,that he would allow it. And so my sister got, you know, people to come in and put up the shampoo basins, and all of these things. And then my mother shipped out all the equipment that we had stored in Hiroshita’s basement. And then she bought, they bought what they could out of their savings and started up a little shop there. And it was amazing, you know.
Oh, I’ll take you to school,the first day of my school at Strathcona, we’ve been life-long friends ever since. And she lives in the West End of
Oh, you’re the girl!
That needed the farm experience!It was really funny. Yeah, that’s a great story. So, did you end up becoming a veterinarian then, as a career? Yeah, there were 8 of us, that started out in 1952. And, actually, there was one girl from high school, and another girl from high school, that had applied along with myself. And then Suzanne Morrow, who used to be the former figure skater, she was the champion senior figure skater, and had won at the World’s and so on. She joined our class. And then there were a few people that had taken the first year of veterinary college, and didn’t make it. And so, they were repeating, and so there were three repeaters, and then there were three of us. Oh, four of us, that were from high school. And after the first year, it ended up that there were only the three, uh—Susanne Morrow who was the figure skater, myself, and Carol. And the rest, didn’t make it. And so then, they ended up, the ones that had failed the year before, they— They were done. They were done. And so, the one girl, Carol, was allowed to repeat first year, and then end up one year behind us, but in the end, it turned out that Susanne Morrow and myself were the only ones that finished. The rest, by the second year, in those days there was a lot of discrimination, so they were hard on the women. You had to have top marks. Or you didn’t stay in. So, it ended up that just Suzy and myself went through, together. And we were the two females that graduated in ’57. Because that was the year that they changed from a four year, to a five year course.
What’s going on?
How come all these children, if they’ve been immunized, you know, they shouldn’t be coming down with diphtheria! Because,I said,
that’s an old disease!And it was amazing, you know. It turned out that they hadn’t, a lot of the children in the Indian reservations were not being immunized. And so we said,
Oh, we’ve got to get them immunized.So, I’d be phoning the Department of Health in
This is going to be the last baby we have,so I took time off. And I stayed home, after I retired from the Department of Health. And it was nice to spend time with the last one. And then when she got to high school, I said,
Well, you know I think I’d like to go back.And so I was wondering what I should do, and I saw this ad at the
Oh yeah, that was back in the old days.So, they’re not really, they haven’t really been interested? They, they’re
Oh, you’re a unique couple!And they’re quite interested, and they all, often say,
Oh, you know, how have you made out?So, we have talked to strangers, when we’ve been on travels, and had quite, quite an interesting chat with some of the couples. They have come up and said to us,
Oh, we’re odd couples too!
Oh you know, I’m out here to, to fail you if I possibly can get rid of you,sort of thing. And you know professors nowadays wouldn’t dare say something like that. No, they would get a lawsuit probably if they said that. That was the era. It’s interesting to hear that it was in veterinary school, too. I’ve heard similar stories from med-ical stories of human doctors of a similar gender bias that used to exist in the. . . Oh yes, I’ve heard some bizarre stories about what used to happen in the anatomy classes in medical school. The first female, she was single female, first single female at
We are being ostracized. And so we want something done about it.And the
My children are not supposed to be out.You know they were like this
Our younger ones are never out after sundown anyway. So we have so many of these badges.She says,
You need two badges. One for yourself and one for your little daughter. And you can go to the hospital and not be getting into trouble.And so, she gave us two of these badges. And that’s how we learned that we didn’t have to duck into the people’s front door place and stand there, in the shadows. And be real quiet while the policeman walked by. He wouldn’t stop if he didn’t notice us. And that’s how we used to go after 5 o’clock, to, to the hospital, to visit my sister. And my mother would force feed her while I sat in the hallway. And then I would come home, and no one would ever bother us, because we had those badges. And so that’s another very unusual happening. Because she was really very, very helpful. You know. And she was very good to mother. And mother, it was a mutual sort of thing. She’d, she’d cut their hair. All the time. 9 kids would all come traipsing in. You’ve told a lot of stories of wonderful kind neighbours that you’ve encountered. Which is wonderful.
Can you make this dress for me?And my mother would always say yes, because she, as soon as she saw the picture, she could always reproduce it. And so she would make all of these dresses, and they'd be so happy. And they’d always say,
Oh, I saw this remnant, and I know there’s enough material there, to cut a dress for your daughters.And they’d bring in these remnant sales that they’d pick up. So, she says, she was always able to dress us very well, because of these wealthy ladies who knew why my dad got killed. Which was very kind. That is very kind. I had to be one of the best dressed on the block. Oh yeah, I uh— You're welcome to stay. I could easily get caught up in this story
Oh my god. What have they done to us?You know, because they were old enough to realize what would, the anger. And I don’t blame them. Because, I, as a Canadian, I would, you know, now that I’ve grown up, I said that was crazy! But it’s just one of those things. That wartime brings out. But I think that the emperor was not a very strong emperor, and I think it was his warlords that were very aggressive and so on. And they seemed to probably run the show as far as they were concerned. Which, you know, was wrong. What can you do? That’s history. That is history.
Are you sure you read all those books?I think you were allowed a maximum of maybe 5 or 6 books. She doubted whether I had read all the books, and I always made sure that I, I just loved reading. So I always made sure that I was reading. And then she’d open up a book and take out a part and say,
Yeah, what about this story?She was testing you! She’d quiz me. And she would say,
Oh,you know. And she was very helpful, that librarian. She’d say,
I know what book you’ll enjoy.She used to help pick out books for me. She was very nice, this lady. But I used to really love reading in those days. And I, you know, I’m glad that that there were people who could tell me what to read. I think I went through all these books that talked about all the different nationalities and their customs and so on. Which was great. Yeah, I mean, to get through veterinary school, you’d have to be a very dedicated student. For sure. So I’m sure that started early with your love of reading. Yeah, and I was just lucky that I had a mother who was very supportive, so whenever I brought an injured animal home, she helped me. You know, clean up the wounds, or you know whatever. And helped tape them up, or whatever that was required. She was always very cooperative. Yeah, I was lucky. Very lucky. Did you ever learn to speak Japanese? Other people I’ve spoken to said they went to the language school? Now, all my sisters, except the one that was just above me. She was not very interested, and so she was very stubborn. And so she resisted learning Japanese much. But my two oldest sisters, they learned to read and write. And they passed their high school certificates, which is an accomplishment. But you know, when you don’t use it, you lose it. And so my sister, who was six years older than myself, she was the one who resisted it as much as possible, and that she never changed her.
Okay give me all your books.And we had to give them all our textbooks. And so once it was taken away, he said,
You come out tomorrow, and we’ll have a big bonfire. And we’re going to get rid of all the Japanese books.And so all the children stood around, while they burnt all the books. There was a huge pile. Because people had snuck a few of the Japanese books into their suitcases and so on. And so, there were no more books, and so that was the end of it. That’s awful.
Oh, I’m glad you’re my helper, because,she says,
you’re a great helper.We got along very well, because we’d wash dishes by hand in those days, they didn’t have dishwashers.
Hey sweetie. How about a hug?
Hey you!
You behave yourself.Good that you kept them in line a little bit. I worked in the Toronto Western Hospital, and then later on, I got a job after school, working at Title Dress shop. And I used, I found that they found out that I could really check the orders and pack them very well. They taught me how to pack them, and so all these places, like Reitman’s and so on, they would have these piles of orders for the next morning. And so I worked anywhere from after school, from about 4, 4:30, until 11 and sometimes 12 o’clock. Packing all these grey boxes. Cardboard boxes. With all these dresses and so on that you know were ordered by the different stores. I’d have these bill, these orders, and I would have to fill each one with each specific order. And pack them up and have them all stacked. And then the next morning, the delivery fellow would take all these boxes, and distribute them to all the dress shops. And that was my job. And I was paid pretty well. And sometimes I would work till 11 o’clock at night. Wow. And then I’d go home, and then I’d have homework to do. Sometimes I used to fall asleep at the desk. 1:30, 2 o’clock I’d wake up and think,
Oh, gotta get to bed!Unfortunately, I found that my math class was usually right after lunch, and that was when I would get really sleepy and tired. There was this one math teacher, who was very abrupt. And he, you know, sometimes I’d doze off, and he was terrible, he’d pick up one of these, you know, in those days there was chalkboard. And he’d throw a big, the eraser at me. Oh dear.
How are you getting along?and so on. Yeah, he was very nice. He was very good. I love how all your stories are populated by kind people. When he found out that I used to help iron men’s shirts and so on, he said,
Oh,he says
I want you to come to my house some day, because my wife does all my shirts.And he says,
She is a great teacher.And I went to his house, and his wife would be very kind, and she showed me how to iron men’s shirts and you know, button it up and fold it and so on. And he was very nice. And his wife was wonderful. I went to their home. And he taught me, and she taught me how to fold, to iron and fold shirts and so on. And at Title Dress, they were very good too, because they used to have, you know, somebody else doing it. And then when they heard that my sister was in the
Oh,he says,
You’re great at things.So, instead of just finishing at one time, I used to just cut off all the threads that weren’t cut off by the sewer, or you know, if the buttons weren’t quite right on the dresses, and so on, I used to have to make sure that everything was trimmed properly, and so on. They gave me that packing job so that I’d work till 11 or 12 until all the orders were filled. But I did that job. And that really helped. And then my sister was very lucky that while she was in the hospital, in the
I’ll leave it up to all the doctors in theBecause that, that must have been very expensive when it first came out. And so, and he had donated it to thesanatorium to have a meeting and decide which patient should be given the opportunity to share it.
We think that. . .My sister should be the one that shared the thing. So she shared the lung immobilizer, and that’s how she was able to recover from the TB. Because she was in, bedridden for all those years. From the time she was 16, until she was in her 20s. Which was really, really lucky. We certainly couldn’t have afforded the time in the lung immobilizer. So, we, you know we were so thankful that these doctors, you know, picked her, out of all those hundreds of patients. She was very lucky. So we had lucky breaks. You did. Lucky breaks populate the broader unfortunate story. So it’s 6 o’clock now. Wow. We’ve been talking for awhile. I’m sure you’d like to get home. I was thinking also about you. You’ve got to drive to Unionville. That’s fine, I’m used to driving. Well, thank you very much, it’s been wonderful.