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This oral history is from an interview conducted by the Oral History cluster of the Landscapes of Injustice project.
Why are you doing this to us?And yet they had the dignity to give them gifts. A Chinese doll and different things, which I’m sure took everyone aback, you know? And then, of course, once they’d moved in you’d find all these hints, you know, those ghosts of the people who used to live there. Buried sake jars in the garden, left to cure because we don’t know how sudden they were moved out of the house. Fish floats, all the berries and fruits that they had planted, you know? And I could see that impact for many years with my grandmother. Her home often had an Asian theme. She was just interested in life and things. So, yeah, that’s how I came across that story. When she got older, again, I was researching the family history. You’d hear snippets of stories and you’d just sit them down to ask,
Okay, what’s the whole story, here?And that’s about all I have in regards to that. So, it was on your end ... it was you investigating rather than your family talking about it? It was talked about, but you know, a lot of things happened during the war, which shouldn’t have happened. My grandfather, being Austro-Hungarian - or some people perceived as German – they even had a swastika burned in their front lawn of that very house. And my grandmother did tell that she wasn’t always welcomed into every social circle because she came from an English background. Because of her Germanic husband, who really had no sympathies at all for Germany proper at the time, although he did serve in WWI for the Austria-Hungarian Empire in the air force. So, yeah I suppose there were good and bad memories, you know? And you don’t always talk about the bad things. But, you know, they obviously had an impact.
Whittle Estate, which has been there since the 1930s, and the
Walsh Estate, which is newer. But, they’re large properties. Forty acres proper. But, I was given to understand one time that was - with maybe the exception of the Whittle Estate – was all Japanese land, where they were running mills and running very successful businesses. Beit horticulture, growing berries, and running them right off the line, and apples straight into Vancouver - because the railway line was right next to Whonnock – or lumber, you know? And these were successful business people in their time and you get the inkling that internment wasn’t always just about them being afraid about Japanese people, but maybe, some people thinking well,
Here’s a great business.I mean, things were supposed to – if I’m not mistaken – things were supposed to be just held in trust and then because they saw the decline of the business and the houses, they just went and sold them.
Juglans Cinerea, which is kind of a strange looking walnut with heart-shaped fruit. Or you’ll see Japanese butterbur.
Petasitesit’s called. It looks like a giant rhubarb but it was an herb crop, they cook the stems. And, you know, they’re both
They’re buying up our land,which again, it’s equal for everyone. But, I think if the people who said that knew a little bit more about what actually occurred in the past - and that this would be a very different city demographically had there not been internment – then you know, maybe they’d be a little more hesitant to say those things. It would be nice to think they wouldn’t think those things, but that’s not always possible. Can you tell me a little bit more about your perspective on the ... landscapes, I guess? You spoke about some specific plants that show evidence that the Japanese Canadians were here. Do you think that – so those, it sort of seems like you said,
weeds– do you think that things would have looked different? Or ... Well, I’m just doing a book now. A book deal for edible ornamentals. And I’m pondering whether to put the Japanese Butterbur in there because it’s a great plant. I mean, it’s going to give you more than you can ever eat. It’s very aggressive. But, there’s no mistaking it. It’s like giant rhubarb on steroids. So, you know, I go cycling and my old cycling route - where we used to live - it would take me by, I think, what used to be part Japanese community and you can just see the vague patch that used to be butterbur. Just left there. And it’s not going to go away. The slugs love it, it’s chewed up to bits, but it’s going to come back bigger and better every year. And again, the Juglans Cinerea or the Butternut, it’s growing all over the place. At work, my boss has given up on trying to pull the seedlings out. He’s decided to pot them up and sell them
Paulownia tomentosa– it was a beautiful tree with purple flowers that look like Fox Gloves and huge leaves. But, it definitely was planted in those communities and had some sort of significance. I’m just not sure what that is. So, those are the tree that I’m aware of. And what along ... if you know Whonnock, it was nothing but forest and bush. So, basically the Japanese turned these into farms, you know? And that’s a heck of a lot of work! It’s sloped. It’s difficult ground to work with. And they turned them into productive berry fields and so what was just forest was taken away as farmland. They definitely had an impact that way. It was a better place when they left, you know? We can at least say that. Right. And then did it change over to, I guess, commercial type or industrial ... Yeah, Whonnock is a bit of a bedroom community. I believe other interests took over the berry farms. Again, Val will be able to inform you about that. I think it’s a bit of a sensitive topic sometimes because I think our people related to people who took over those farms that probably wouldn’t want to talk too much about those things. And they’re still here. And I can understand that we’re not responsible for our parents’ or grandparents’ decisions. But, still. There’s something there, you know? You know, there must be a feeling that,
I didn’t really deserve this.Because things were not sold for top dollar and even when they were sold I believe all the funds just went to the crown. So, yeah. You know, it’s not like they were given the money and they had a nest egg that they could use when they were let out of internment. And even then, they were told where to live.
I was just young at the time. I mostly know through the story that my mom told me.But I’m sure she will be able to give you a better context or at least a better perspective. And have you spoken to your kids about it? Yeah, my kids know about it. I mean, I put together a bound family history. Everyone has it in my family, except my immediate family because I’m just putting a few extra things in there. So, that story is in there along with all the stories of Alaska and everything else. Again, mostly oral stories that I put down. They have the family history, too, and that’s fine. But, dates and names, they don’t mean a heck of a lot. It’s nice to know where you come from, but if you can hear the stories of what people experienced you get a better picture of why they are who they are. And if you could say, you know, anything about this story of the Japanese Canadian community to anybody what would you say? I guess, surrounding it’s importance but also just your own opinion. Yeah, I think ... again, I think it’s really important that we bring this back now. I’ve been a gardener for many years. I can remember back in the '80s when Hong Kong was closing down and a lot of people were buying properties in the British properties. And the Caucasians there were not happy about it. And even out here, many people of Asian descent here had to come out here to Pitt Meadows to play
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there weren’t any openings. So, we’re seeing that a little bit with the current hot real estate market. And it is very focused complaints about the Asian community. I just think it’s not the whole story, you know? Really, it’s just oversimplified. And again, we have to go into Vancouver to see Chinatown and other places. And we celebrate those places now. But, at one time they were forced to live in that little part of that town. It became what it became because people ... that’s the way their lives were dictated. And we celebrate it now, but we don’t know about some of the things that Chinese Canadians, Japanese Canadians had to go through.
Well, that’s what used to be here.So, I think it’s important we tell the story, you know? We’re trying to make reparations for the past ... apologizing to the Sikh community and the East Indian community for the Komagata Maru and things like that. And the Japanese thing is almost way late, it’s almost ... we don’t think about it on the same terms. It was a pretty horrific thing, you know? And wasn’t just Japanese people. Some Italian people, I believe some Ukrainian people, there was interment that happened to other classes and other races. And we can’t always make it right. I don’t think we could ever make it right. But, at least we can teach kids,
Okay, this is what Canada was like in 1943, ’44, ’45. Wasn’t great. There were reasons, but the thinking was flawed, obviously, and people suffered for it.So, that’s the best way for us to avoid that mistake in the future. To know exactly what went on in the past. Do you think a big part of that comes from your family? You were talking about your family had experienced discrimination as well. Yeah, my grandfather ... you know, it was harder on my grandmother than it was on my grandfather. He was a pretty gregarious person. His Germanic stoic-ness got him through it