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This oral history is from an interview conducted by the Oral History cluster of the Landscapes of Injustice project.
Jing'ru berus!
Which one is daddy?
Itofamily and the people who owned the house, Mr. and Mrs.
Mineoka. So, to me...well, we had to speak Japanese at home, so it was sometimes difficult at school because they said, you know,
Speak English!
Sea Breeze, it was owned by Japanese Canadians. But, I think they went bankrupt or whatever, so he moved out west to Nanaimo to his hometown and he picked up salmon fishing like he did when he was a kid. In his youth. And he did that for about two years, where he would leave Toronto in April and come back in about October. And then, finally, he saved up some money so that we could go to Nanaimo and be with him. So, we moved to British Columbia, where in Nanaimo I had two uncles as well. But, Nanaimo was the type of place where they had good relations before the war, so my dad had kept those friends and in fact, he went fishing with the guys he went fishing with before the war.
Nanaimo Trolling Fleet
auntand
uncleeven though
Uncle Ted, his family spoke French, they were from Salt Spring Island, so they were from part of that colony there. And then he was married to Margaret Norrie, who corresponded with my dad all through the war. Because I could still see some of the letters that passed through the censor. She would send him pictures of Nanaimo and send him copies of the Nanaimo Free Press. So, she was Aunt Margaret and then her two sisters were Aunt Betty and Aunt Charlotte even though their last name was Listden – very Scottish – and their father spoke with a very thick Scottish accent. But, it was nice moving to Nanaimo and having all these instant friends. And then there was one other Japanese family as well - the Yashitas - who lived nearby and they ran the Grotto Restaurant. And they were somehow related to my aunt's side of the family. That's what I found with a lot of the Japanese. A lot of them are, sort of, connected one way or another. But, growing up I used to babysit for this lady. Her brother came back. He had gone to the US during the First World War, was an actor in the original
Mutiny on the Bountyand he became our Uncle Bob
Noobior
Gump. Ah
Noobi, I didn't know who they were referring to. My mom's name is Kimei and her maiden name is Suzuki. But, yeah. Depending on who I was talking with, they'd either refer to my dad as
Gumpor
Noobior very few people called him Norman. But growing up in Nanaimo, it was interesting because there was another family that moved back to Nanaimo – the Shiwozawas – and Mr. Shiwozawa used to say... well, he was always good to our family and he said it's because,
It's because your grandmother was so good to us.Because everyone remembered...well, now let me go back to the beginnings of our family. According to the records, I guess my grandfather was born in 1878. Now, according to family, sort of, legend, he came over before the turn of the century. So, he must have been about eighteen to twenty. He was apparently one of the younger sons, so he came out to make his fortune. He was from Wakayama, which was one of the four places that most of the Japanese Canadians at the time came from. Because it was a relatively poor prefecture. Now, he had a family in Japan. My Uncle George who's living in Toronto, he met with some of those people before they passed away. But, he has a record of that. Now my grandfather came with a cousin, I guess, who went to the States and my Uncle George, sort of, kept in touch with some of the relatives and the children from that family as well. One of them apparently lives in Seattle. But, my grandmother came over in 1913. I guess their marriage was somehow arranged. I don't know if she was a picture bride, but I think they were somehow related. So, my grandfather's name is Etsu Saburo and my grandmother, let's see...I have it here somewhere
Oh! They're coming to scalp us.But, the Native people would bring foodstuffs to say thanks to my mom. But I think most of the Japanese Canadian kids who were born in Nanaimo, were... my grandmother helped bring them out. And somebody was telling me that there's one reference to a Japanese nurse or midwife in Nanaimo in the concubines' book, but it doesn't say who it is, but it must have been my grandmother. That's neat! Or at least it was in maybe an original draft. Yeah, that's great! So, interesting family history. And then my grandparents had ten children. So, one of them died at childbirth. He's buried in Nanaimo. My eldest Uncle Takeshi, or in some places he's known as Takeshi, he was born in 1914. My dad was born in 1916 and I have a feeling they would have a child every two years thereafter. The families seemed to be very involved in fishing. So, before the war they owned three fishing boats:
Sea Patrol 1,
Sea Patrol 2, and
Sea Patrol 4. So luckily, the museum here, they were able to trace what happened to those boats. But just after the war broke out, I guess most of the family were sent to Bay Farm in Slocan. But, my dad was a bit late getting home from a western movie. He liked westerns. So, they put him on a train right away for Angler, Ontario, as sort of a dissident or hardcore... this is anecdotal, but apparently one of his school friends saw my dad so he went and told my grandmother that my dad had been, sort of, whisked off to the east. And for that, for giving secrets about the enemy, he had to serve
KPor something for several months. For quite a while
I'm Japanese,and they said,
Oh! We thought you were Italian!
Take your choice. When we get to Canada it's your choice.So, that's how I, sort of, ended up...in Toronto it was easy to go to the Buddhist church. In Nanaimo there is no Buddhist Church, so I went to the United Church. That's when I found out that, I guess, my grandparents were married in the United Church in Victoria in 1913. Or that's what they say. So, as a result all of my dad's side of the family, they're all United Church. But, I think some of them left because of all the position of the United Church on the Japanese Canadians during the war. My aunt, who somehow was a catholic, my Aunt Shiz, she married my Uncle Mack, I guess their family went to Greenwood because I read the Catholic nuns tried to get as many of their former flock from Vancouver into Greenwood as they could. But when they said she couldn't marry my Uncle, that's when she stopped being catholic
I heard you were in Nanaimo.Because we were on the same
Reach for the Topteam. Same thing with one of the people who I invited. So, that was kind of nice. When I was living in Africa I got this letter saying,
I'm going to be studying in Kathu in Northern Nigeria, just wanted to inform you to let you know.And then I said,
Are you the Sonja Rabeneck from Nanaimo?and she said,
Yes! That's me!
Oh yeah and my sister Linda, who's much older than me, we were just talking about...her sister Linda is the head of the Colon Cancer Program for all of Ontario. So, it's interesting to see where different have gone. Mhm, mhm. Did your parents have the same type of strong connections in Nanaimo that you do? Well, my dad did because, I mean, my dad kept most of his friends from his youth. So, in fact, one of the grandchildren is still a friend on Facebook
Oh, I hear you're going to Nanaimo. Say hi to your mom for me.So, it's...Nanaimo is that kind of place. Where you got to know people and they're really nice. But, I notice that race relations, community relations, were very poor in other places. I went to Port Alberni once and I visited somebody and they were, sort of, very hostile to Japanese Canadians because they're MP at the time – A.W. Neil – was one of the ones who lobbied hard to get the Japanese out of BC. Of course, there's a high school named after him
Put-Put, so he hung around with younger crowd but they had small, very small, fishing boats. Like they were only about, oh, maybe ten feet or twelve feet long
Why's he going to university?. You know,
Why doesn't he become a fisherman?But, my mom believed in, sort of, education and I'm glad that I did. And then I wrote the Civil Service exam...well, after I graduated I became a banker. I convinced Montréal that they needed somebody with a history degree, specialty in Asian studies, to be a banker. And then months after I got this phone call from Ottawa saying,
Well, we need you to start in Ottawa in two weeks' time. Can you come?So, I thought about it, I asked my parents what they thought, and then I went back and submitted my resignation to the Bank of Montreal. Little did I know there was another guy at another branch who also submitted his resignation
o-r-u, so there are only two in the list, so I think we're going to call him Santoru when he's born in September. Now, they haven't decided on a, sort of, English-French name yet, but that will come. Hm, but the spirit of it, it seems like is living on. Oh, yeah. Well, it's like, because I wanted my kids to be bilingual, I didn't really try and force Japanese down their throat. And also my Japanese is so poor. My mom used to say,
If you meet a Japanese person, talk to them in English.
You and mom work too hard. We don't ever want to become Civil Servants.
Oh, let's get the apology, forget about the monetary.But, you know, there were other people who pushed for the monetary. So, I think it was good for the people who got it because my dad had passed away before them. He didn't get anything anyways. That could have maybe coloured my thinking, but that's when I learned my cousin was also very involved with the redress in Toronto. And then, later on I heard about...well, no, earlier on when I was still going to UBC, there was a group of Torontonians that published the Powell Street Review - Helen Ota and Ray Michiba - And they organized a conference and a happening. So, luckily we got funding from Secretary of State and I got invited to do some poetry reading there
Japanese-ness. Whereas in my case, I was always surrounded by Japanese culture. I was always proud of it. And even the movies that I saw...I liked watching the movie
Go for Broke, which was about the 442 battalion. The Japanese American battalion. I liked watching
Flower Drum Song. Even though it was supposed to be set in Chinatown, most of the actors were Japanese American because you had James Shigeta, Jack Soo - whose real name was Jack Suzuki – Miyoshi Umeki
Oh, wow!You know, it made me proud to be Japanese Canadian, having known that my uncles in the Canadian Army.
Sukiyakiby Kyu Sakamoto
Zatoichicame out they loved it
MangaAnime, where most of it is from Japan. Hm. Different ways to maintain the connection. Yeah, yeah. Even the TV shows that they watched when they were kids, in French,
Belle et Sebastien,
Dernier...Demetan. They were all Japanese cartoons, even the songs were in Japanese. But they were in French. Interesting, with the languages. If you don't mind me asking, were there any special stories that your parents told you about their life in Canada, maybe prewar? Do you have any stories that were told to you, or that you can remember? Well, because mom and I came over in '56, it would really be my dad's. But...my dad was one of the quiet types. He liked playing cards. He didn't really talk about his youth too much, or definitely not about the war. I got more of that from my other aunts and uncles. Like is said, my aunt Sawai was the storyteller, except when my uncle was there. Then all the sudden she'd be very quiet
1010 Stewart Ave, is sort of a Marina now. But from what I understand, that entire area, there were a lot of Japanese living there. I'd love to try and talk to some of the people. Find out where people lived. You know, like I think my cousin would, with the map in Cumberland, except it's not the one that they seem to have here. But, they do have it at the Cumberland Museum. There seems to be quite a few families in Nanaimo, but, you know, there's no real record and you can't tell what happened to what family. So, this is where it was interesting reading the review that the museum puts out – Nikkei Images – and reading about different people and what happened to the families. Mhm, mhm. Were you able to find out, when you father was in Nanaimo – before you and your mother were here – if it was the majority of the area was a Japanese community? No, but where we were in the Brechin area, there were quite a few Japanese. In fact, the principal I had in junior high school, I think he came from Australia and taught my Uncle Wally. For him, he was used to Japanese names, which is why he's one of the first ones to call me Shig. Because I used to go by the full
Shigeru. But that's when you sort of know that people have got who may have been with Japanese Canadians. They know to shorten the names
As soon as I gave her the stuff,she'd say,
Oh! Here's the postman, give him something. Oh! Here's somebody else, let's give them something!There was almost nothing left
this was just abandonedor they don't have room in there freezer for half a deer. Yup,
This is for you
you can't buy friends. You know,
but if you have friends then you're rich. And that's why I always feel like I'm one of the richest people in the world
Oh, I'll come and get you.But, one friend doesn't do bridges
When you come to Nanaimo, I'm your driver for the weekend.So, that's really nice. And then just before leaving Nanaimo another friend said,
You know, if you come here and you need a car, I'm your driver.So, it's nice when you don't even ask for it. But, friends just automatically volunteer. It seems like most of your stories – even your stories about your parents and grandparents – revolve around friendship. Oh, yeah! Yeah. And then even in the foreign service I feel privileged that I worked with people and that we've maintained friendships. Like for my first posting in Lagos, Nigeria, I still have a friend who now lives in New Brunswick. Another one whose got his trailer near the Saint Lawrence Seaway. But, we communicate sometimes by email or whatever. And then from my posting in Senegal, in fact, we just had breakfast with some friends about four weeks ago. We knew in Senegal, got an email from another friend who I knew in Senegal. And then from our Washington days, I know one of my friends just lives up the street, so we usually try to get together once a year. And then last year, I had lunch with a friend that I worked with forty-five years ago. When I put on Facebook that I was coming out here saying – from Calgary, again – saying,
Oh! I'm going to be out in Vancouver for four days. Let's try and get together!So, we worked together forty-five years ago
Ii
Is everything okay?It was the mother in law of my son's best friend, who I'd met at the wedding
Osiwash, but I don't believe that. I think they're thinking of Siwash Rock
Oh, well, you know, when we cross the bridge we get beat up.I crossed that bridge almost every day. But, you know, somebody must have gotten beaten up. And it's sort of that story just kept on going and going and going. Mhm, hm. So, when your father was up north there, they would fish together? Or they were just friends? Or... Yeah, well they'd say that my dad didn't like trouble so he always fished at...they almost called it
Norman's Cove. Because he'd go to the same place every day just to keep out of everybody's hair
Oh! There's Professor Larry from the U of T who I know!
Shigata Ganai