Terumi Yamamoto and Fay Jensen, interviewed by Carolyn Nakagawa, 19 March 2018

Terumi Yamamoto and Fay Jensen, interviewed by Carolyn Nakagawa, 19 March 2018

Abstract
Fay Jensen and Terumi Yamamoto work in unison to describe various aspects of Terumi ’s life. They cover her childhood in Japan on her grandmother’s silk worm and indigo plantation, and the difficulties she faced being born in Canada but growing up in Japan. Terumi and Fay discuss Terumi ’s life before the war in Steveston, during the war, and then Terumi ’s experiences after the war in Lethbridge and moving back to the westcoast. They talk about the rough conditions of Greenwood, the difficulties of working on the sugar beat farms in Lethbridge, the loss of property Terumi ’s family experienced such as their farm, truck, and horse; and about the types of work her family did when they moved back after the war. Terumi talks about having her marriage and having children. Terumi mentions she is Catholic and the involvement of a Catholic priest in the internment of Japanese Canadians. Fay discusses the Redress movement for Japanese Canadians and her feelings towards it. Terumi reminisces about her younger brother before finishing the interview.
00:00:00.000
Carolyn Nakagawa (CN)
So, this is Carolyn Nakagawa. I'm here with Terumi Yamamoto and Fay Jensen, and we are here at their home in Richmond to record Terumi's oral history for the Landscapes of Injustice Project. And, it is March 19th, 2018. So, てるみさんと呼んでもいいですか.
So, this is Carolyn Nakagawa. I'm here with Terumi Yamamoto and Fay Jensen, and we are here at their home in Richmond to record Terumi's oral history for the Landscapes of Injustice Project. And, it is March 19th, 2018. So, may I call you Terumi?
Terumi Yamamoto (TY)
はい.
Yes, you may.
CN
Yes, so can I ask you about your first memory of your life? Do you remember from your childhood, early memories? 子供の頃の(きおく)がありますか。
Yes, so can I ask you about your first memory of your life? Do you remember from your childhood, early memories? Do you have any recollection of your childhood?
TY
言う、 分からん。
I don’t understand what you're saying.
Fay Jensen (FJ)
You know you, 小さい時よ。You ... 何 remember するんよ。 In Japan or here?
You know, when your were young, what do you remember doing? In Japan or here?
CN
Either.
FJ
Okay,
CN
Maybe, カナダの小さい時にカナダに生まれましたでしょう。
Maybe, you were born in Canada, right?
TY
Mmhmm.
CN
その時から何も,
From that time, what,
FJ
覚えた?
Do you remember?
CN
思い出がありますか。
Do you have any memories?
TY
なんと言うが分からん。
I don't know what you want me to say.
FJ
You don't remember、する、 小さい時? ここ生まれ , three years-oldで知ってる?何した?何,
You don’t remember, when you were growing up. what you did? From when you were born until you were three years-old, do you know anything about then? What did you do? What,
TY
No.
CN
No?
FJ
No?
TY
No.
FJ
日本行ったら?
Did you go to Japan?
TY
日本行った知ってるよ。
You know I went to Japan.
FJ
そして何した?
And, what did you do?
TY
ボートで行ったよな。じゅうんわ。And, grandma に起きないってもて、そしてTwenty - No, nineteen か, Nineteen またカナダだいきできて  .
I went by boat. When I was eleven, my grandmother said I wouldn’t be going back to Canada then, and when I was twenty – no, nineteen? At nineteen, I was able to return to Canada.
FJ
Yeah, but three に nineteenまで何した? You know, three years-old to nineteen , あの時何した?
Yeah, but from three until to nineteen, what did you do? You know, from three years-old to nineteen, at that time what did you do?
TY
何って日本でスクル行った覚えちゃうな。それだけ。
What did you say? In Japan, I remember going to school. That’s it.
FJ
You should - how about, you のおばあちゃんのうちにあのsilkの - you know, little leaves - bag にひとあい? (あい)を言った - You must, ... I don't know. See, my Japanese is terrible. Carolyn に言ってくれ。何したんって。You know, silkworm に売ってくれる?
You should – how about that silk at your grandmother’s house – you know, little leaves – with a bag, right? You talked about Indigo – You, must ... I don’t know. See, my Japanese is terrible. Please tell Carolyn. Say what you did there. You know, you were selling silkworms?
TY
どんなこと?
What are you talking about?
FJ
何した?あのおばあちゃんのとこ。
At your grandmother’s place, what did you do?
TY
Oh, 何も知らせな。
Oh, I haven’t told you anything.
TY
Yeah, 遊んだだけじゃない。
Yeah, I didn’t just have fun.
FJ
Yeah, but you- おばあちゃん, you ここ来たから you なんど(せんか)が終わり。Remember? Or do you 小さい basket, bag にして(あい)売ってくれる?
Yeah, but you- when you and your grandmother came here, the war had ended. Remember? Or, you were selling indigo in a small basket or bag?
TY
Hmm, 山と分かるか 家前そのしばちゅってよ(かんり) に行ってよってそれまた入れてbag着て来て、また next day 畑よな。Mhm, visit-able 何の部屋をして。That's all.
Hmm, do you know the mountain? In front of the house, with help and supervision, we would go up putting indigo in the bag we were wearing. Then, on the next day we would go back to farming. Mhm, we could visit, whichever room and work on it. That’s all.
FJ
No, but you 小さい時 you 売っとわら おばあちゃん あの silkのworms,
No, when you were little, you sold your grandmother’s silk worms,
TY
Oh! Yeah, yeah, yeah! House.
FJ
藍売ってくれるかい?
You sold the indigo, right?
TY
Oh, あれはどういう誰かな?silk いくつを下さいな。
Oh, I wonder who that was? They would ask for some silk.
FJ
そして何した?
And, what did you do?
TY
あっちそれよ. (くわ) っていってよその食べるleafよ。分かる?
Over there, I sold silk and indigo. The leaf they ate was a mulberry leaf. You know, right?
FJ
Mmhmm.
TY
それよ。Everyday ordinary pick-upして そして そのにたべさして藍のことひざを拾ってやな。それ3やで。
I did that. People would come for ordinary everyday pickups, and I would feed the worms and pick up the indigo on my knees. That was at three years-old.
FJ
Mmm, I know. そして 食べてあのsilkworm 何して。
Mmm, I know. And, after eating, what did you do with the worms?
TY
じゃ、それまた言う。小さい川へ持っていってよ。その(こうてい)やるよの。Washするなも。Washして か (うがい)して then また next day の続く。
Ah, you say that again. I took them to the river. At the step I would do it. I would wash them, and I would gargle, and then the next day I would do it again.
FJ
Okay, well でまたあのこと, so,
Okay, well, so you did it again, so
FJ
食べた 何した?小さいのsilkworm?
They ate and what else did they do? The small silk worms?
TY
ああ、それはだよ。あの pick up に来てよ。(えさめ)とまたsilkwormな。Pick up してまたsilkを作る。
Ah, that’s what you are talking about. The pick up would come for both the bait and the silkworms. After the pick up, we would make silk again.
FJ
Yeah, they had a silk farm on there property and she was in charge of picking the mulberry leaves. And, putting them in a little basket on her back. That was her job, and she put the leaves on the shelves where the worms were and she said when they ate, they were so loud.
00:05:13.000
00:05:13.000
FJ
Remember, you said that? (やかましかった). 
Remember, you said that? It was very noisy.
TY
Mhmm, mhmm, mhmm.
FJ
Yeah, she ... so (やかましい), like really, really noisy. It would keep them up. Just the eating of mulberry leaves. Right?
Yeah, she ... so incredibly noisy, like really, really noisy. It would keep them up. Just the eating of mulberry leaves. Right?
TY
Mmhmm.
FJ
Yeah, 何 else した?You, school 行って,
Yeah, and what else did you do? You were going to school?
TY
うん。
Yes.
FJ
遊んで,
You had fun,
TY
うん。
And, what else did you do?
FJ
そして何した?
And, what else did you do?
TY
Mmm, またその あの silkworm こうってやる  ちょっと前行ったらスクリーンみたいもんや。Everyday on time, washing するなの.
Mmm, again, with those silk worms, I did as I said. A little before that, I went to something like a screen, and everyday I would wash them.
FJ
Oh, okay.
TY
また りばい 持っていって。あんなこと。
Again, I would tie and take them. Those types of things.
FJ
Oh, okay.
CN
そのこれ, 頃の友達が覚えていますか。
With this, I mean, do you remember your friends from then?
TY
はい、覚えていますよ。
Yep, I remember them.
CN
はい、あのちょっと言ってくれませんか。友達の話。
Would you mind talking about your friends?
TY
そうやね。友達と呼んだも ... この国から帰って誰もフレンドなかったな。 そしてフレンド 2かもらいできて, you know? Ocean やがら swimming したり, you know? Suntan したり あんなこと。
Sure. Calling someone a friend ... when I went to Japan I didn’t have any friends. And then I made two friends, you know? We did things at the ocean like swimming and sun tanning, you know? Things like that.
CN
(みおむら)で?
この場所の違う呼び方は和歌山県アメリカ村でございます。
In Mio Village?
Also, known colloquially as America Town in Wakayama Prefecture.
TY
Mmhmm.
CN
楽しいそうです.
Sounds fun.
TY
Yeah, でも(さびしかった)な。あの日本語ばかりでしょう。そして またここの日本語とJapanと違うからね。あまりフレンドもないし寂しいな。もう速くカナダに帰りたいなと思ったよ。
Yeah, but it was also lonely. People were always speaking in Japanese, right? And, the Japanese spoken here and in Japan are different. Because of that, I didn’t have many friends, and I was lonely. I recall thinking I wanted to return to Canada quickly.
CN
カナダに帰りたいわけ?
You wanted to return to Canada?
TY
Yeah.
CN
なぜ?
Why?
TY
なぜってもフレンドできんでしょう。
You say why, but I told you I couldn’t make any friends.
CN
日本で?
In Japan?
TY
Mmhmm. 皆日本の(やから)ね。 だから、
Everyone there was Japanese, right? Therefore,
CN
てるみさんはカナダ人に見られましたか.
You looked Canadian?
TY
Mmhmm.
CN
ぞうなんですか。
Is that so?
TY
だから行ったりしたりあんなこと若いしてティーンエイジの時の楽しいで何もなかったな。やっぱりここで生まれてね。大きなったんだから. ちょっと前カナダからJapanに行ってね。Grandmaに行ってもらったけどね。そうな場合や。皆そうだったなの, あの時よね。
That’s why, going to places and doing things young people do in my teenage years wasn’t fun at all. I was definitely from Canada and stood out. Just before leaving Canada for Japan, my grandmother came, but at that time it was like that for most people in that situation.
CN
どんなこと?カナダ人の ... てるみさんは自分はカナダ人だと思っていましたか.
What do you mean? Canadian ... Terumi, you were thinking you were a Canadian?
TY
ああ、そうね。三つれいの三歳で帰ったんだから。カナダへ帰りたいなと何べも思ったな。フレンドないから。
Yeah, because I had returned to Japan when I was three. I always thought I wanted to return to Canada because I didn’t have any friends.
FJ
日本に?
In Japan?
TY
うん。
Yeah.
CN
ずっとそう思っていました?カナダに帰りたい?
You always thought that? You always wanted to return to Canada?
TY
はい、はい。
Yes, yes.
CN
そうなんですか。
Really?
TY
フレンドないでしょう. 話だって参り帰ってできたけどな。やっぱり、Japanは空いいよ。とてもいいけどフレンドないの寂しいね。速くから ... まあな帰らない知らないがちょっと帰りたいだけど。まあな微たたりって言ったらJapanもいいやるけどな。あそこで18のはあまりよくなったね。
I already said I didn’t have any friends, right? Even though I went and came back. I have to say Japan’s sky is something else. It is really great, but I had no friends so I was lonely. Quickly ... Without knowing I would be coming back to Canada, I kind of wanted to come home. Well, when I say that, Japan was great, but being there until I was 18 wasn’t that great.
CN
そしてカナダに帰ったら友達ができましたか。
And, when you returned to Canada, you could make some friends?
TY
Oh yeah! ここであのbornしたんだからね。ここの友達よ。Japanの友達ないよ。少しがなかったね.
Oh yeah! Because I was born here, right? I have friends here. I don’t have friends in Japan. While I had only a few in Japan.
CN
その人たちは二世ですか。カナダ生まれの人?
Your friends, were they second generation Japanese Canadians? Were they born in Canada?
TY
Mmhmm, mmhmm.
CN
皆、日本語で話したでするですか。
Everyone spoke in Japanese?
TY
もうカナダへ生まれても(じほう)日本でDUYおってもやでまたやっぱりうごろしたらちんいれたカナダ(いみん)何もって ... まんざるや You 行ったんよあのJapanへな? すること皆、違うでしょう日本と。
Already being born in Canada, I couldn’t understand the Japanese news reports. Yet, I knew after a while immigrants hadn’t anything ... You went to Japan, right? The things people do here are completely different to how people do things in Japan.
CN
例えば?
For example?
TY
分からない。この何というかな。ママへパパとやっぱり帰りたいよね。DUYやそん Grandma に見てもらったけどな。
I don’t know. What do you call it? I of course wanted to return to my mother and father. Even though my grandmother had received me and was taking care of me, but I couldn’t understand her.
00:10:04.000
00:10:04.000
TY
やっぱりなJuneのwaveからこれ入れたカナダはやっぱりいいな。何にしても昔の(old style)よね。Japanは。もうわからんも思ったなやっぱり言うのところはいいわと思って。もななそしてここへ帰らんやったらいいよ。Japanは。日本も空な be photo (じもと)いいのな。変わったけど。あんたはJapanどこ?
As I thought, this comes in on a June Wave, which made me think Canada is great. No matter what was done, it was always in the past’s old style of Japan. I couldn’t help but think I just don’t understand this place, so I was over being in Japan. I also thought I was fine with not returning to Japan. Ah, but the sky over my local town in Japan was always amazing. It has changed though. What about you? Where are you from in Japan?
CN
私は... 私の家族も三尾村です。
I’m .. My family is also from Mio Village.
TY
どこ?
Where?
TY
あんたの?
Your family?
CN
はい。
Yes.
TY
へえええ!? 何と言うねを?
What!? What is your family name?
CN
なかがわ。
Nakagawa.
TY
Oh, そうね。分からんもやね。そう. そしたらJapan、あなたも小さい時、行ったでしょう。遊びに。
Really. I don’t know it though. Interesting, and you also went to Japan when you were young, right? Just to have fun.
CN
私?
Me?
TY
はい。
Yes.
CN
そのことないです。私は四世です。
I didn’t. I am (fourth generation Japanese Canadian) .
TY
ああ、そうね。
Oh, that’s right.
CN
はい。
Yeah.
TY
本当、分からんね。
I really don’t know anymore, you know.
CN
ちょっと、あの、高校生の時に
Well, during high school.
TY
はい。
Yeah.
CN
静岡県で留学しましたけど。
I did study abroad in Shizuoka Prefecture though.
TY
ああ、そう。
Really?
CN
はい。また質問していいですか
Yeah. May I ask more questions?
TY
何やな、どう思った?ここでして カナダ帰って?
Well, what did you think about here when you returned to Canada?
CN
Hmm, それでカナダに家族とどこに住んでいましたか。カナダに。
Hmm, in any case, in Canada where did you live with your family in Canada?
TY
カナダに?
In Canada?
CN
はい。どこにすんでいましたか
Yes, where did you live together?
CN
どんな家がありましたか。
What type of house did you have?
TY
あるんでしょう。帰ってきたから。今は知らんけど。
Of course, I had house because I returned to Canada, but I don’t know about it now.
CN
あのどんな家でしたか。
While, what type of house was it?
TY
Hmm, まあまあというhouse せやな。でももうやなあの grandma もなくなったし、帰っても行くとこってない わ Chasm maybe あるかな 分からんけどね.
Hmm, the house was what you would call alright. But, my grandmother who I had spent time with in Japan had passed away, so you could say we had no where to return to in Japan. I wonder if there was a chasm maybe, but I don’t know.
CN
どこがその家に住んでいましたか。
Where did you live in that house?
TY
え?
Sorry?
CN
どこ... 誰がその家に住んでいましたか。てるみさんとご家族?
Where, I mean who lived in that house? Just you and your family?
TY
うちのパパのね。おばあさん。パパはまあそこのうちにね。子供がいなかったの。そしてよ パパの出たとからもらったの一人。そして そのうちを着いたにやね。Hmm, まあまあこの(よったら)な。日本だれもいないにやな。
So, my father, my grandmother, but for my father in that house, there were no children there. And, my father left and received another person. And, when I arrived at that house, I thought it was alright because I had chosen this country, right? Also, there was no one left in Japan.
CN
お母さんの、その家に住んでいましたか。
Your mom, did she live in that house?
TY
はい。
Yes.
CN
はい。それと兄弟いましたか。
Yes, and did you have siblings?
TY
No.
CN
No?
FJ
You asked her if she's got any brothers or sisters?
CN
Mmhmm.
FJ
She's got a brother.
CN
Oh, okay.
FJ
Yeah. Younger.
CN
Younger?
FJ
Yeah.
TY
うちの brother なくなったからもう一人になった。
My brother has passed away, so I am the only child left now.
CN
そうなんです。その頃、カナダに帰りました時に ... カナダに帰った時に三十九年だったんですか。
Is that so? At that time, when you returned ... when you returned to Canada, was that 1939?
TY
そうやね。
Yeah, I believe so.
CN
はい。その頃に、四人で住んでいましたか。そして、おばあさん?
Yes. Around that time then, there were four people living there? And, your grandmother?
TY
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
CN
その家は 思い出がありますか。どうやって?
Do you have any memories of that house? How do you remember that house?
TY
ちょっとママがなかったな。すぐ戦象で、 もう違うとこ行ったでしょう。ちょっと前ね。うちの、そのおばあさん、おきらない人もらったおばあさんがね。手紙来たの。速くカナダへ来なかったらもうどこへ行かなか、分からんから。速く来い言う出来てね。そして 橋、カナダ来たの。
Well, my mother wasn’t there. The war was starting soon, so she had already been sent to a different place. A little before that, my grandmother, the one who had received a person that wouldn’t do anything, a letter cam from her. It said if you didn’t come to Canada quickly, you wouldn’t be able to go anywhere. Because we didn’t know what was going to happen. We said come quickly, and then we had a bridge to Canada, so she came.
CN
おばあさんは?
Your grandmother?
TY
いや。
No,
CN
カナダに来ましたわけ?
Came to Canada?
TY
No, no, no, no. あのおばあさんが一人おったんよね。そのおじいさんというの早くなくなってね。そしてまあ 来たんやけど。Ah, こんなけんたというところ行こうなんでよかったなと思った。そして また(いどう)するなんでしょう。戦象始まるから。Greenwoodまた行った。 また自分のhouse れなあんな アパートメントみたいなところでよ。いいぞ。日本に行ったら良かったなと思ったよ。こんな(くさって)ところで住んでと思ってよ。あのやっとよ。
No, no, no, no. That grandmother was left alone. Her partner, my grandfather, had passed away earlier. And, well, she did come to Canada though. Ah, I thought coming to a kind of place called Kenta was great though. And, we also moved again, right because the war started. We went to Greenwood. Our house changed to an apartment style place. It was alright. At that point, I thought it would have been good if we had gone to Japan. Because we were living in a foul smelling place. The bare minimum kind of place. Chuckling can be heard from Fay or Carolyn over this last line of Terumi's.
00:15:08.000
00:15:08.000
TY
まったく前色々あったは皆何に。何も持っていない英語となかったら。やっぱり人分も人分も お前からな。人中でしたり入ったりでこくすい といったらCamp Stauton,
これは抑留所の駅とかスローカンの抑留所でございます。
かな。朝からよ。ご飯たくんよね。早く行ったら誰もないやぞ行くでしょう。もうalmost full camp so. それ いいわと思った、もうまたライブももをしたんよ。そのな。ご飯たくもの。毎日、毎日も(けんか)ばかりやそいで。(ざいかお)皆このな。ご飯たくもぶさいた。ああ、入ったバス いる皆まえもうあの人さき行った。煩い、煩い。 Dishes can be heard rattling in the background. まったくも な戦象で。まったくも速く終わろうかいいってなと思ってな。 もう他のうちに着くでもやだへと思った。まあないうらそれは分からんやるけどな。でももういない、来ないなったら young girl の時も行ったことないからへわ。皆一緒てんとうもよ。
Indeed, before lots of things happened to everyone. We couldn’t bring anything and we didn’t have any English. Just like I thought people were people, just like you right? People were coming in and out, and with different national characteristics in Camp Stauton,
This possibly refers to a camp station or Camp Slocan.
I think. From the morning, there was lots of food. If you went early, no one was there, so people went then. The camp was already almost full. I thought that was okay, and having lots of people was good again. But then, even with lots of food, every day, every day there would only be fights. Everyone would make these facial expressions. There was lots of food so we were puzzled by the fighting. Ah, the bus we were on that person from before had already come. Be quiet, be quiet. Dishes can be heard rattling in the background. Really that war. Good grief, I thought let it end quickly that would be great. We already arrived at a new house, but I thought I don’t like it here. I couldn’t quite understand this new place. But, there was already nobody here. No one had been coming here, and I had never been to a place like this when I was a young girl. I suppose this was the case for everyone though
CN
スティブステンから Greenwoodに移動する時にどんな気持ちでしたか。
When you moved from Steveston to Greenwood, how did you feel?
TY
ああ、どんな気持ちってもう話したもううっせんなアカンってよ。そして、(きしゃ)言ったら分かるかね。
Ah, you ask me about what the feeling was even though I already talked about the bad people being unbearable. And, when I talk about the steam train, do you understand?
CN
季節?
Season?
These words, kisetsu, which is season, and kisha, which is steam train, when pronounced in a certain manner, can sound similar in Japanese.
FJ
汽車, train.
Steam train, train.
CN
汽車?Ahh.
Steam train?
TY
汽車よ。それもからちゃんとよいし時行う出来てよ。晩に。そしてその汽車であのGreenwood 行ったの。Dishes clattering in the background. One room, one にならん. ああ、もう晩になったら見えないぞ。聞いたばかりやめな Dishes clatter in the background again.. ああ、ご飯もう(ぼっした) . フル人速い。ああ、煩い、煩い。Large Noise in the background. ああ、いいくらいってまいかどうかもうJapan の所 (?) (せきなおす)を思って。
Yeah, a steam train. Because of that, while going we had a good time at night. And, that steam train went to Greenwood. It wasn’t one room per person though. Ah, when it became evening, we couldn’t see anything. We could only hear. Our food also went bad. That full person was so fast. Ah, but so noisy. I thought about what it would be like in Japan with proper seating and how good that would be.
FJ
Mom,誰言ったんよ. 速く行けて. 誰来た. You know, うちにはよ, 行かなかったって. 誰言った?
Mom, who said that? Go faster. Who came, you know, and who said I won’t go? Who said that?
TY
Catholicの人や。
A Catholic person.
FJ
は、白人?
A white person?
TY
カソリック言った。
I said a catholic person.
FJ
Oh, that's interesting.
CN
The Catholics?
TY
Yeah,
CN
The degree of,
FJ
Yeah, a Caucasian,
TY
Catholic,
FJ
Catholic person came and said they have to gather their things. They were going. They had to go.
FJ
Yeah.
TY
ミート, Catholicだからね。
Me too, Because I am Catholic, too.
FJ
Oh, okay. I didn't know that.
CN
Your family is Catholic?
FJ
Her mother. Yeah.
TY
分からない。そして電話言ったらまったファイトばか来たら。ああ、どかまじ女キャンプ、
I don’t know. And, on the phone they said again there was constant fighting. Ah, that women’s camp,
FJ
So, night timeに汽車で行った?
So, night time the steam train came?
TY
そう、そう、そう。
Yes, yes, yes.
FJ
Wow. Okay, so 皆、あの持ってアガ持ってものだけ?
Wow. Okay, so everyone, just took what they could carry?
TY
そう、そう。
Yes, yes.
FJ
そして、行った?
And then, went on the train?
TY
うん。
Yes.
FJ
そして、皆日本人行った?
And, everyone was Japanese Canadian who went? Wow.
TY
Catholic は何やからな。ちゃんとルール(もとって) , たぶん、
Catholic people were mixed, not just white. Mo and Lulu were hurrying. Maybe.
FJ
そして、白人あった? 
And, you met a white person?
TY
Oh yeah.
FJ
あの汽車に?
In that steam train?
TY
Oh, yeah. 会ったよ。
Yeah, I met them.
FJ
なんで会ったん?
Why did you meet them?
TY
ああ、それは知らない。
Ah, that I don’t know.
FJ
Oh, okay.
TY
Japan, 日本人だけそのこと出来んも。
In Japan there are only Japanese people, so there can’t be any mixing.
Dishes being put away in the background.
CN
Hmm. その荷物作る時覚えていますか。
Do you remember putting together your luggage at that time?
TY
はい? 荷物?
What? Luggage?
CN
荷物作った時になんとか、
When you put your luggage together, or
TY
Yeah, 覚えていますよ。
Yeah, I remember.
CN
誰が ... 何を、
Who... put what,
FJ
何入っていた?
What did you put in there?
CN
何入ったとか その、
What did you put in that,
TY
Mhm, それはもうちゃんと調べたな。
Mhm, you looked that up right?
FJ
No, but you, 行く時よ。何入れたん? Is that what you want to know?
No, but you, when you left, what did you put in your suitcase? Is that what you want to know?
CN
Yeah. 何入れ、
Yeah, what did you put,
FJ
何入れたんよ。行く時。
What did you put in when you left?
CN
何入れたらいいとかその考えについて、
Or, this would be good if I put it in, that type of thinking.
TY
着る物だけ。
Only things I could wear.
FJ
着る物だけ?
Only things you could wear?
TY
That's all.
FJ
そして、お金ちょっとあった?
And, you had a little bit of money?
TY
Oh, お金は払わにあいちょうかわからない、
Oh, I am not sure, I think we paid with money.
FJ
Yeah, but お金と、着るものだけ?
Yeah, but, only money and things you could wear?
TY
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
FJ
Nothing else?
TY
No.
00:20:01.000
00:20:01.000
CN
入れたい物、入れたくても入れなかった物がありますか。 Things left behind?
Were there things you wanted to put in, or wanted to put in but didn’t put in? Things left behind?
TY
何というか。
What did you say?
FJ
Oh, yeah! They left lots of things behind.
CN
Yeah, like is there anything that you wanted to take that you had to leave especially?
FJ
You know, 行く時よ。You の着る物だけとお金もっと かい?
You know, when you left, you only took things you could wear and money, right?
TY
Oh, yeah yeah.
FJ
So, 何度 ... after, 欲しかったよ。取れなかった。
So, how many times . . . after did you think about things you wish you had brought. Things you didn’t take with you.
TY
No, no, no.
FJ
No. See, my mother, my mother's mom and my father, they had a farm, okay? Eleven acres, I was telling you about. On west of One Road, and in between StevestonHighway and Williams, so before they left, they left quite a few things. At that time very few Japanese Canadian people had vehicles; they had a vehicle. Why? Because they owned a farm, so they had a large truck and they had a horse. And, they had to leave all that behind. Everything. Because, for Japanese Canadian people, they were quite well off, because they had property. And nobody had a car. So, even saying goodbye to the horse was very sad. I remember my grandfather saying that. You know, cause he was quite an entrepreneur. When he came from Japan, he opened a store selling Japanese goods. But at that time nobody had money. And, he was a very kind person. It was bought on credit. Like, I don't have money now but can I have that on credit? I'll pay you later. Finally, my grandmother said, look, you know, you are a good business man but you got a soft heart. We gotta quit this business, and that's when they got the farm. And, they got every one of the family members to work on the farm, and, you know they would sell produce. They would grow produce and sell it to different, like, IGA, Loblaws, and things like that. And, that's what they did. Before the war started. Yeah, but it was very sad. He said that they kissed the horse because that was very precious to them, right? Yeah, see she is getting tired. But, that was the main thing that broke their hearts when they left.
CN
Is that your mother's family?
FJ
Her husband. Yeah.
CN
Okay.
FJ
My father.
CN
So, 戦争の前に結婚しましたか。いつ?
Before the war, did you get married, and when?
TY
戦争前。
Before the war.
CN
何年?
What year?
TY
Oh, 何もガマンも。(あたま)いなった。
Oh, I can’t really recall. My head is not really here at times.
FJ
She was married on  May 14th, 1944.
CN
Oh, '44?
FJ
Nineteen forty-four.
CN
Okay.
FJ
So, she was 24. So, I think she got married after the war? I am not sure.
CN
Forty-four is,
FJ
Nineteen forty-four.
CN
Would have been still in the interior during the war.
FJ
Oh, yeah, okay. It's during the war.
CN
So, Greenwoodで結婚しましたか。
So, you were married in Greenwood?
FJ
どこで結婚したん?どこ you 結婚した?Greenwood?
Where did you get married? In Greenwood?
TY
Yeah, yeah. 何となmarryしたのmeのfamily カソリックだからeh. あがだけで  (ひどいな).
Yeah, yeah. What do I say? I got married because my family was Catholic. That’s a bit mean though.
FJ
ママとパパ会った?
Did you meet your mother and father?
TY
Oh yeah, と、
Oh yeah, and,
FJ
Yeah? そして、じゅんきちよねも会った?
Yeah? And, did you also meet Junkichi and Yone?
TY
Mmhmm.
FJ
That's my grandfather on my dad's side.
TY
Mmhmm.
CN
皆カソリックですか。
Was everyone Catholic?
TY
Mmhmm.
CN
(だんな)さん の家族も?
Your husband’s family as well?
TY
Meだけ違う。
Only I was different.
FJ
No, no. She was Catholic, everybody else Buddhist.
CN
Oh,
FJ
Yeah, my dad's family were Buddhist.
CN
I see. 戦争の後にどこに住んでいましたか。
I see. After the war, where did you live?
TY
戦争後はスティブステン生きていたな。
After the war I lived in Steveston.
CN
いつスティブステンに帰りましたか。
When did you return to Steveston?
TY
はい、はい。
Yes, yes.
CN
何年、ぐらい?
Around what year?
TY
何言っていたっても. 会った前なって分からんな。
What ever I may say, it was after meeting my husband, but I don’t really know.
CN
Hmm, なんでスティブステンに帰りましたか。
Hmm, why did you return to Steveston?
TY
Hmm, やっぱり自分そこでなくらいたいんからね。
くらいたいんの言葉の意味が分かりません。育てることだと思います。
Hmm, it had to be there because that is where I kuraitain.
I do not know the meaning of kuraitain. I think it is related to growing up based on the subsequent response.
FJ
They grew up there that's why they went back there.
TY
Yeah, 皆のGreenwood から スティブステンしたあそこ帰ったよ。まあhouseはでんていだけどな。
電停と言いましたがやまもとさんの言いたかった言葉は停電だと思います。
何も出来なかったわ、
Yeah, everyone from Greenwood went back to Steveston. We did that even though our homes had no power.
Terumi says tram stop, but I think she meant to say power outage. Teiden, power outage, and dentei, tram stop, are the reverse of each other in characters and sound in Japanese. Also, the next sentence suggests Terumi could not do anything about the situation, suggesting difficulties such as having no power. She could also be referring to her old home in Steveston having become a tram station.
We couldn’t do anything.
00:25:16.000
00:25:16.000
TY
nothing, な。
 Nothing, eh.
FJ
Yeah, they had nothing after the war, well,
TY
Yeah, 皆づらいも,
Yeah, it was tough for everyone though.
FJ
Cause they took everything away from them, so what they took was the things that they could carry. And, they went to the camps and came back with nothing, and they worked on sugar beets on, in Greenwood, and, they basically were slaves there! Yeah, and then came back here and it was the same thing: they had nothing. How many families 住んだん、一つのうちに?
Cause they took everything away from them, so what they took was the things that they could carry. And, they went to the camps and came back with nothing, and they worked on sugar beets on, in Greenwood, and, they basically were slaves there! Yeah, and then came back here and it was the same thing: they had nothing. How many families How many families lived in one house?
TY
アパートメント住んでやったのmirror(すくませかった) か 10 peopleぐらいな。
We lived in an apartment, and in the mirror we could see how cramped it was with about 10 people there.
FJ
一つのうちに住んでいた?No?
You lived in one house? No?
TY
No, no, no, no.
FJ
No, remember when the war にfinished して you, 皆、来て you said there were how many families? You said, ゆうら と、やえこ と Jimmy と 住んだっとかい. そして、another familyいた?
Fay uses the inanimate verb “to be” to refer to families, which are animate, so I changed the verb to the grammatically correct verb in Japanese.
Or just two, families?
No, remember when the war finished, and you went there? You said there were how many families? You said there was Yuura, Yaeko, and Jimmy living there, right? And, there was another family? Or just two families?
TY
Hmm, いたな (どころ)の人な,
Terumi also uses the inanimate verb “to be” when the animate version is required in Japanese, so I changed it to be grammatically correct.
Hmm, you are right; there was another family. Where were they from?
FJ
Yeah, because she said they moved into a very tiny house. I think with three separate families because no one had money. They had nothing.
TY
No money.
Carolyn chuckles.
FJ
Yeah, it was funny because when she was young, her mother said to her, cause my father was after my mother, you know, he wanted her, to marry her. He was always after, and then she said “I think it would be a good idea to marry him because  they've got money and you won't suffer. You will have a good life because they have acreage and they had money and you'll be fine.” And then the war came, and everything was gone. So, it was, you know everybody had nothing. So, I mean it was a good thought and everything was good, but how can you, Sound of Fay's arms hitting her thighs. How can you expect something like that to happen? And they had to start all from scratch, from nothing.
CN
Did they farm again? 戦争の後に?
Did they farm again? After the war?
FJ
No.  No, nobody farmed after that. After they lost the farm, my father went fishing, right?
TY
Mmhmm.
FJ
He was a fisherman, and then she worked in various jobs. I mean they had to comeback and work the fields and everything because, Man's voice in the background can be heard saying “I don't like this.” They had nothing. You know, and just Japanese education living in Canada you get nothing: can't speak the language, so they were basically labourers. And, no, it was sad, she said it was very sad. You know, having nothing, leaving with nothing, coming back with nothing, starting all over. And they all started their families. Tough go.
CN
Terumi-さんの家族は(りょうし)ですか。
Terumi, your family are fisherman?
TY
何って?
What did you say?
CN
Were your family fishermen?
FJ
Her mom and dad or,
CN
Yeah,
FJ
Ahh, きよし, not きよし, きしろ、fishermanだった?
Ah, Kiyoshi, not Kiyoshi, Kishiro, was he a fisherman?
TY
Yeah.
FJ
You know, papa?
TY
Yeah, no . . . ノース。
Yeah, no . . . he went north.
FJ
Yeah, he was fishing up north, and her mother was a cook. She cooked for all the guys. Right mom? You know, ママ、クックしとかい。
Yeah, he was fishing up north, and her mother was a cook. She cooked for all the guys. Right mom? You know, grandma was a cook, right?
TY
Yeah.
CN
Hmm, so 戦争の後に両親はどうなったか。
Hmm, so what happened to your parents after the war?
TY
戦象の後、どうなったんな。やっぱり、あの、スティブステンやな。 もう来たなんぼうだな。
Right, what happened to them after the war? Of course, I think they went to Steveston, but I am not sure how they got there.
FJ
Yeah, but 何した?
Yeah, what did they do?
TY
何したっという何の意味、
When you say “what did they do?”, what do you mean?
FJ
戦象 after, you 何した?な、何働いた?
After the war, what did you do? I mean, what did you do for work?
TY
Cannery.
FJ
Oh, she worked at the cannery. And, papa fisherman またしていた?まだ?
Oh, she worked at the cannery. And, papa continued to be a fisherman?
TY
うん, うん、うん。
Yes, yes, yes.
FJ
After 戦争に?
After the war?
TY
もう、ボートないからでんとうしてな。皆、とりあいず本当ぴあななあ
ぴあななあの意味が分かりません。多分やまもとさんは違うことと言っていますが私は分かりません。
There was no boat so they had to fish in the traditional manner. Everyone, for that time, really piananaa.
I do not know the meaning of “piananaa”, and I am not sure if this is what Terumi is actually saying.
FJ
Right,
TY
A bit, ホンマに色々あったわ。
A bit, there was really a lot of things happening.
Male voices can be heard in the back.
CN
その時にどんな気持ちだった?あなたの家族に?
At that time, how were you feeling? How was your family feeling?
TY
もう知らないもね。
I don’t really know anymore.
CN
Hmm?
TY
しおんがないと意味よ。
しおんがないの表現はしかたがないの表現と同じの意味だと思います。
Government のすることやから, you know?
It couldn’t be helped, you know?
I translated the expression shionganai to have the same meaning as shikataganai, meaning it cannot be helped.
It was just something the government did, you know?
FJ
皆、(おこっていた)
Was everyone angry?
TY
Oh, yeah. House で皆とどうやって One thing もうこれねも。
At the house, everyone was concerned about one thing after another.
00:30:00.000
00:30:00.000
TY
お金なしな。それ今度もっと市とお金ないそうと思う。それ言ったよ。ある人行けない人どうするんや。
There was no money, right? That and this time there was no town or money, and that was said. People who had money and people who couldn’t go around because they lacked money, still what could they even do?
FJ
What they did to the Japanese Canadian people on the west coast was criminal cause they didn't take any assets other than the west coast Japanese Canadian. That's criminal. Yeah, but you know what? What can you do now?
CN
Mmhmm.
TY
うん。
Yeah.
CN
Um, Redress,  リドレス の時は覚えますか。
Um, Redress, do you remember things during the time of the Redress?
TY
何と言うの?
What are you saying?
CN
The Redress in the 1980's,
FJ
Right?
CN
Right.
FJ
When they got a cheque for the,
CN
Yeah, or even before when they were talking about it in the media. どう思いましたか。その時に。
Yeah, or even before when they were talking about it in the media. What did you think about the redress at that time?
TY
どうって
What are you saying?
CN
リドレスという。
The Redress.
FJ
How would you say that?
CN
Oh gosh, I forget the word. その千九十八十年代の時、
なかがわさんは千九百八十と言うつもりだったと思います。
カナダ(にっけい)人は、政府に中、(われわれ) に、取った物とか、 Carolyn chuckles. They tried to get the government to apologize,(あやまる)こと、についての会話があったんですけど、謝るとかお金を出すとか、覚えていますか。
Oh gosh, I forget the word. I have some questions about the time in 1980 when the government tried to apologize to Japanese Canadians for the things they took.
Carolyn, in Japanese, accidentally says the year range incorrectly in Japanese. I think she meant to say the 1980's, so I translated it as such.
Do you remember anything about the apology or receiving money?
Men's voices can be heard in the background.
TY
No,
Carolyn chuckles.
TY
まったくない、あん何移動あっちしこっちきOne 戦争のひらぶせんもね。このカナダ。悪い国じゃ、いくら戦争やっていってもね. Male voices can be heard in the background. Hmm,これは思うな。Male voices become louder in the background. 悪いことばかり聞くから。まあ知らないけどな。
I have no memory of it. We moved around a lot from here to there for one war despite being peaceful and against the war. This Canada was a bad country. They shouldn’t do that no matter the extent of the war. Male voices can be heard in the background. Hmm, that’s what I think. Male voices become louder in the background. Because you only hear bad things, right? A well, I don’t really know though.
CN
Do you remember that time?
FJ
No, I don't to tell you the truth. No, I know they got reimbursed with some sort of monetary funds but I never got anything cause I wasn't born at that point. And, ah, but what she says was true that a lot of Japanese Canadian families they didn't have anything. They still got that redress money, well okay. I think that was unfair, too. You know, what I mean? I mean but what is fair? You know, what I'm saying? So people who have it never got anything for it. Like you say, one person got reimbursed. That's it. But, yeah, it was unfair, it was, definitely not right. Can't do anything about it, right? They're a lot bigger than we are; we can't fight them! Even if you try you'd have to have a lot of money to fight them, you know? So, I don't know, that was... She didn't have a good life because of that, she was born at the wrong time, you know? Compared to us, we're so  fortunate. You know, we're getting the fruits of their labour. But, it's not right.
Male voices continue to be heard in the background. Pause.
CN
So, 戦争の後にずっとこのへんのスティブステンRichmondに住んでいましたか。
So, after the war you continued to live in this area in Steveston and Richmond?
TY
はい?
Sorry?
FJ
After the war?
CN
Yeah, after the war.
FJ
Yeah, they lived in Steveston.
CN
ずっとスティブステンRichmondに住んでいて、子どもたちが生まれましたでしょう。
You stayed in Steveston and Richmond, and you also had children, right?
TY
うん。
Yeah.
CN
その時、いつぐらい?
When was that about?
Male voices echo loudly in the background.
TY
子供が?
Having children?
CN
はい。
Yes.
Carolyn chuckles.
TY
こつぞうだったかな。マジ生まれきつかったの思うな。
You were like that I think. Giving birth was really difficult.
FJ
When was that, after the war?
CN
Was it?
Carolyn chuckles.
FJ
No, I, what was the question?
CN
Oh, I just asked, I just want to know more about life after the war, so, I asked like when did she have children?
FJ
Right, okay, her first son, what was that 19~ ... I can't remember; he's 6 years older, so ... but she had him in Greenwood.
CN
Oh,
FJ
Yeah, well he was born in Lethbridge, and then they came out here. And, then I was born 6 years later, in 1952. Yeah, I'm an old woman. Fay laughs.
00:35:09.000
00:35:09.000
FJ
But it wasn't easy. They lived on, I remember, I'm pretty sure, yeah, we lived on Muncton Street when I was born, and that's that red brick building, its a historical building where most of the people who lived in the top of the apartments and the top, they're all Japanese Canadian people. Yeah, I don't know how much the rent was. You 知ってる? How much スティブステンのとこあがら住んでいてとこrentだった?
But it wasn't easy. They lived on, I remember, I'm pretty sure, yeah, we lived on Muncton Street when I was born, and that's that red brick building, its a historical building where most of the people who lived in the top of the apartments and the top, they're all Japanese Canadian people. Yeah, I don't know how much the rent was. Do you know? How much the rent was for where we lived in Steveston?
TY
知らん。
I don’t know.
FJ
It wasn't much, and there was no real bathroom other than a toilet. In this, like there were two toilets at the very end of the hall, and then all the apartments they had small kitchens. But that's it; everybody used the communal toilet. There was no bathtub, so you had to use one of those round bathtubs, those metal bathtubs, and boil water and put it in there and do it in your family room. Yeah and you'd have to share the water, right? So, the little ones went first, and if the water was still clean, the next person got in there. Yeah, it was, pretty savage, but that's the way it was. Nobody had money, and Phone rings in the background. That's what I remember growing up there. I was terrified living there, to tell you the truth. But, one thing it was water front. I had no idea. I'd lived on water front when I was a little girl. I thought I lived in poverty because the building was quite high. Well it's the biggest building in Steveston on Moncton, the red building, you know where that is?
CN
I think so,
FJ
Yeah, it’s a very historical building. And, we watched the ships go by. We had the full view of the water and the wharf because there were no houses in front of it. And, I remember we use to fight over who got to see the water Fay laughs.and who didn't! But, yeah, it was pretty sparse. We are so fortunate to live now than before, yeah.
CN
I wonder about, and this is a question for your mom, actually, the difference between Steveston before the war and after? The community? スティブステンでの日系人のコミュニティーは戦争の前にと戦争の後の違いはありましたか。
I wonder about, and this is a question for your mom, actually, the difference between Steveston before the war and after? The community? Were there any differences between the Steveston community before and after the war?
TY
Hmm?
FJ
You, okay, she doesn't understand that.
Carolyn and Terumi politely laugh.
CN
Sorry,
FJ
You know, before the war? スティブステンとafter the war どんなにchangeをしたんよ。
You know, before the war? How did Steveston change after the war?
TY
どんなにチェンジってどういう、
Do you mean what type of changes?
FJ
Changeした?Directed towards Carolyn. Like, before the war . . . what are you talking about, the people or the,
Did it change? Directed towards Carolyn. Like, before the war ... what are you talking about, the people or the,
CN
The community; the people , the work, what life was like, generally.
FJ
Right, okay, before,
CN
生活、どんな生活がしましたか。
Life, what type of life or life style did you have?
TY
Hmm?
CN
その そういう違いが、
That, the change you are talking about,
FJ
違った, before, after the war, 皆 きback, 来たらスティブステンどんなにだった?
When everyone came back to Steveston after the war, what did they think about it compared to Steveston before the war?
TY
どんなにって何いなかったちょうラッキー やな。
When you say, how did we feel, there was nothing, which maybe was lucky.
FJ
Yeah?
TY
Moneyないし。
We had no money.
FJ
Yeah, before the war, 皆 happyだった?
Yeah, before the war was everyone happy?
TY
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
FJ
Yeah. そして、 after the war, 皆、怒っていた?
Yeah, and after the war was everyone mad?
TY
Oh yeah, そうよ。
Oh yeah, that’s right.
FJ
Yeah, okay.
Fay laughs.
CN
毎日のことですか。何か怒るとか、普通だった?
Was that something felt everyday? Being mad about something, was that normal?
TY
Mmhmm.
CN
本当に?
Really?
TY
moneyな. 戦争に皆enemy思ったね。皆変わんなんでしょう. まった、crimeあったな。 A male's voice can be heard in the background. まあ、なんでもいいわな。 知らないわ。
We had no money. During the war, we were thought of as the enemy. Yet, we didn’t change right? We hadn’t done any crimes. A male's voice can be heard in the background. Well, it is what it is. I don’t know.
FJ
Yeah, it's over. Can't dwell on it. You know what I mean? You gotta go forward. I wish we could've got this done before, you know, her memory, you know? She would've remembered a lot more, but that's okay.
00:40:02.000
00:40:02.000
CN
So, Greenwoodに、から Lethbridge に行った後、娘さんがいましたけど なんでLethbridgeに行ったんですか。
So, from Greenwood you went to Lethbridge, and after that your daughter was there. But, why did you go to Lethbridge?
TY
なんでかな、いかなるも知らなかったな。
I wonder why. I can’t think of any reasons right now.
Male laughter can be heard in the background.
FJ
なんで?仕事で行った?
Why? For work, right?
TY
No, まあそれもあるけどな。
No, well, but, there was that, too.
FJ
Cause I know they worked on the sugar beets when they were they. But, I don't know,
CN
結婚の後に from after getting married, went to  Lethbridge?
After getting married, from after getting married, went to  Lethbridge
FJ
You, marriedした時 then Lethbridge 行った?
After you were married, you went to Lethbridge?
TY
うん。
Yes.
FJ
Yeah? なんで行った?
Yeah? Why did you go?
TY
なんでってGreenwood そこ皆おいたけどやっぱりパパの仕事なかった知らなにもうな。
You ask why, well, in Greenwood everyone was there, but, as you thought, papa didn’t have a job. I don’t know any other reasons though.
FJ
Oh, you のパパ, or アガ、
Your father or mine?
TY
No, the old man よ.
No, the old man, your father.
Carolyn and Fay laugh.
FJ
Oh, the old man!
TY
Yeah,
FJ
Oh, okay, because he needed to do a job,
CN
Lethbridge はどんな所ですか。
What type of place was Lethbridge?
TY
Oh, いいとこよ。小さいとこだけどね。いいとこよ。 まあ信号とっていったら, you know? Beatsのな。あんないけどいらいけどね。 でもいうとしにするんと違うでしょう。 Men speak loudly in the background. (うえたら)今度もう、したんのな(だいこん)が大きなる前. 選んでもいいでしょう。ほい ハウスのふりやしな大きいまう持ったらyoung やっただから出来てなと思うね。
Oh, it was a nice place. It was small, but nice. While there was a signal light, you know? We had the beats, too, which we worked on with guidance and some irritation. But it was probably different from what I am saying. Men speak loudly in the background. After planting, this time, and before the Japanese radishes came up, we could choose things. If you have a large house, it is because you could do it while you were young, so we made our choice.
FJ
I think most of the jobs were 畑 jobs.
I think most of the jobs were farming jobs.
CN
Mmhmm, mmhmm.
FJ
You know? Cause that's all they gave them. Right.
TY
One day に  2 row よ。大きいでしょう。ああ、(えらかった) な.
In one day you could do two rows. That’s a lot, right? Pretty amazing.
CN
皆、働きましたか。
Everyone worked?
TY
Oh, yeah. それ(せわ) 知らないでしょう。そしてはなもうな。男の子もほら小さいしな。あかんにちょっと小さい shackに行ったのもそこチャットよね。そして、tourある人見に行くんよと行った. そしたら、もうbagひっくり返してそしてそのままよ。外にあねってやろう。何(はこぼりたい)、今持ったら。わいぎだった、(かぎ) あるでしょう。それそのな。うちの上でもあったんでしょう. (かわいそう) ねなと思って。あんなやったよ。子供連れてからしよないんもね。
しよないんの表現はしかたがないの表現と同じの意味だと思います。
いないもやなのbagひっくり返してな。
Oh, yeah. You don’t know the care involved, do you? And, there wasn’t much. Small boys had to work as well. We couldn’t go to a small shack, and there was a chart there. And, people on tours went there to see things. And, we used bags and turned them inside out and used them like that. Outside, my older girlfriend would say I want to carry something, what you are carrying now. It was easy, and we had a key, right? But, above our place a strange noise happened. I thought that’s too bad, for something like that to happen. We had no choice but to bring children with us to work though.
I translated the expression shiyonain to have the same meaning as shikata ga nai, meaning it cannnot be helped or there was no choice.
When there was nothing in the bag, we turned it around again.
FJ
そして寝た。
And then slept.
Carolyn laughs.
FJ
Lucky.
Carolyn laughs.
TY
まあ、one row is two hourやるやも。 まったく。moneyあった。うごわなった。せんりはいいのになと思って。
Well, we could do one row in two hours, you know? Good grief though, this time we had money, but people were still upset. Even though we were far away, or so I thought.
FJ
Mmm.
CN
あの時に、家族は何人でしたか。Lethbridgeで。
At that time, how many people were in your family? In Lethbridge.
TY
Oh, みらだけよ。
Oh, only us.
CN
Hmm?
TY
Me と old man と、そして、子供な、
Me, the old man, and the kids.
CN
三人, だけ?
Only three of you?
TY
No, 四人、
No, four of us,
CN
三人で、四人?
Three, no, four?
TY
うん。
Yeah.
CN
You,
FJ
Who? 四人って how many? 4?
Who? When you say four people, that’s how many? 4?
TY
Four.
FJ
だれよ me? No, not me. Me まだ、I wasn't born yet.
Who? Me? No, not me. I still wasn’t born by then.
TY
Ha, そうか。
Ha, is that right?
Carolyn and Fay laugh in a fun manner.
TY
もうグチャグチャ。
My heads already all mixed up.
FJ
So, 三人よ。
So, three people.
TY
でも知らないもね。あまりいなかったら。
But, I am not really sure, you know? I wasn’t there very much.
FJ
Hmmm,
TY
そして、畑がアカンで もmoney それも先もらえた。食べてくれもな。
And, the farm was no good. We could receive money early, and thanks to that we could eat.
FJ
Hmmm,
TY
えらいもした。
We were grateful.
FJ
Hmm,
TY
だよな。John Manakey (みそ) でな。売っつり言ったよ Johnにわ。
That’s right. John Manakey and the miso. We told him to sell it.
FJ
That's my brother.
TY
ほんまやで。
Really.
FJ
Hmm.
TY
パパ、あの女ねも行って小さいshackに行ったのすぐでそこに見に、にくいよ。何してやろう分からんだって。そして、buggy ねあいて 落ちてもどうもないゆれしていい子。聞いてびっくりきてうちで落ちたないでねてや。なあ、可哀想になと思って 
Your father and that woman went to that small shack, and that area is really hard to see, so I don’t really know what they did. And, in the buggy your brother could sleep even if the buggy were to fall over or shake; he was a good boy. I was surprised when I heard that, and said let him sleep without dropping. I thought how terrible for him, too.
00:45:00.000
00:45:00.000
TY
Male voices can be heard in the background. えらいもしたな
Male voices can be heard in the back. We were grateful though.
CN
So, どんなぐらいLethbridgeに住んでいましたか。一年間とか二年間?
So, how long did you live in Lethbridge? 1 or 2 years?
TY
そうやな。Johnはbaby出来て、だいぶ大きなちゃったもな。Threeぐらいかな。
Yeah, we had John, and he was quite big before we left there. Maybe about three?
FJ
Three years Lethbridge に住んだ。
You lived for three years in Lethbridge then?
TY
Yeah.
CN
Oh, それからスティブステン戻る?
Oh, after that you returned to Steveston?
TY
自分moneyなかったよ。まあ、皆そうだったけどな。今思ったらも(けっこう) な。暮らしやと思うな。
I didn’t have any money, right? Well, everyone had no money. When I think about it now I thought we had enough though. I thought we could live, you know.
CN
Hmm?
TY
今思ったらね。えい暮らしやと思っちゃんよ。皆えらかったけどね。
Well, when I think now, I thought I was living a good life, but everyone was great.
FJ
Everybody's got it easy now.
TY
ホンマにえらかったね。皆やな。自分が働きこのまま可哀想やね。それ払うmoneyもなしな。まったくも。それ言ったら戦争にもう死ぬまで何もないわなんで待ったらもういらないほど。
It was really amazing. Everyone was. We were working ourselves, and it was a struggle. We had no money to pay for anything. I mean good grief. When I say that during the war we had nothing beyond our lives, I wonder why were we waiting, when we weren’t needed anymore.
Pause.
CN
では、私達の研究はカナダ人の皆さんに、この歴史について教えてわけ。
On that note, our research is aimed at teaching everyone in Canada about this history.
TY
Ahh,
CN
だから、てるみさんはカナダ人に、何が知って欲しいものがある?この日系、カナダの日系人の歴史について知って欲しいものがあるのか。
Therefore, Terumi is there anything you want Canadians to know? Is there anything you want Canadians to know about the history of Japanese Canadians?
TY
Hmm, これはちょくざつない
これは複雑の方言だとおもいます。
ですね。
Hmm, that is complicated isn’t it.
CN
(ふくざつ)なんですけど。
Even though its complicated, is there something you want them to know?
TY
はりしことないな。
I don’t really know.
FJ
What did you ask her?
TY
まったく。終わり言葉ばかりでな。あっちもぼしこっちもぼしね。本当に悪かったな。 Old man がもう死んでぐしな。他の人はどうかしなきゃ(み)が悪い、悪かったと思うな。もうin the tray all moneyも言ってしまった。いいOld manだったよ。本当に。
Good grief. It was all ending words. Over there and over here we only had epitaphs. It was really bad. The old man has already passed on. Other people are also struggling now with their conditions. I thought it was really bad. Already all our money is in the tray and we said that. He was a really good man.
FJ
Cause she calls him old man.
TY
あまり(しゃべらない)してしね。
I don’t really know because I haven’t really talked about this, you know?
Carolyn or Fay laughing. Pause.
FJ
What did you ask her?
CN
Oh, I asked, because the research is to teach Canadians about Japanese Canadian history, is there anything you want Canadians to know about it?
FJ
About what happened to them?
CN
About what happened, about the history, and what it means.
FJ
Oh, that's a tough question.
CN
Yeah, right. Carolyn chuckles.
FJ
Yeah!
CN
No wonder!
Carolyn and Fay both laugh.
FJ
I don't know. What,
TY
なお女仕事してきてない。今もよ。はったらいいわな。まあ、あんたもはさ、youngだけどな。まったく色々のことあったな。もうは心配ないわ。もう白のもちがなってきたし。 Fay laughs. ね。もう今度も自分のことなら子供のことね
Yet, like before, women continue not to work. Working is good. Well, you are young, but you know? It was unbelievable how many things happened to us. Now there are no worries. Now we already have white mochi to name one reason. Fay laughs. Right? Now, if you talk about your self these days you are also speaking about your children.
FJ
Yeah, that's a tough question.
CN
Mmhmm.
FJ
Mmhmm.
CN
Do you have any thoughts on it?
FJ
Actually, that's a really tough question, too, you know? Because my husband is Caucasian, so my kids are mixed, right? I think, I can't really pass on anything like that. Because,  it just happens out of the blue something like that, a war. And you know that you have to leave with just your possessions. I mean that's not ... it still happens, in other parts of the world, which is hard to believe but it does still happen. I don't know what to say, you know? You just have to live in a safe country. You're thinking Canada's safe, but it wasn't for Japanese Canadians. They just, Fay snaps her fingers. took their goods, and you're out of here. We don't trust you; you have to go in-land; that's pretty tough to take. I'm surprised the Japanese are so passive, and they weren't more militant about what happened to them. You know what I'm saying? Because that was a crime. And all these, I hate to say it, these, these people took their property just like that, Fay snaps her fingers again. It's like really, really ugly to come back and somebody else is living in your land. I mean how could that happen? But it does.
00:50:51.000
00:50:51.000
FJ
I mean how could you pass on life lessons to your children when you don't really know; it could happen again! You don't know, you know what I mean? I mean all you can say is, live in a safe place, but this is not even safe. I don't know what to say about that. That's a very tough question. I mean it wasn't their fault, and these things happen. It was just a matter of  circumstance. Yeah, that's no, it's very tough. I think that happens in Iran, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure, I... it's somewhere in the Middle East that they could just take your property like Fay snaps her fingers again. that. I'm pretty sure it's Iran, and a lot of people fled Iran because they did the same thing. They just left with what they could take on their backs, and whatever money they could take out of the bank, then they left because of safety reasons. And, it could happen again. Who knows? You don't know. Cause anything could happen. So, what do you tell your children? You know what I'm saying?
CN
Yeah,
FJ
It's a tough question. Hopefully that doesn't happen ever again here, but who knows? You don't know. But, she... her last part of her life is a good part of her life. They... she was happily married to a guy and... to my dad , and that was the love of her life. It was great. He wasn't great with words, but he was a good guy, very nice man, generous, and good qualities. Had two children, and no troubles after that, so they were very lucky. What else can I say?
CN
Yeah,
FJ
Right?
Carolyn chuckles warmly. Pause.
CN
まだ話したいことがありますか。 There is a knock on the door, and the door opens while Carolyn is talking. 人生について
Is there still something you would like to talk about? There is a knock on the door, and the door opens while Carolyn is talking. Anything concerning your life?
TY
はい? 
Yes?
A man enters the room and asks to speak with Fay. Fay leaves the room to talk with him.
CN
ちょっと、まだ,
Well, anything,
TY
Door closes. Nice day.
CN
Hmm?
TY
Nice day.
CN
Nice day. Pause. It's a nice day, yeah. 本当に春らしいになってきたんです。
Nice day. Pause. It's a nice day, yeah. It really is becoming more and more like Spring.
TY
本当やね Pause. まったくな。うちの弟も早くなくなって可哀想
Yeah, really. Pause. But good grief. It is really terrible that my younger brother passed away so quickly.
CN
弟?
Younger brother?
TY
Yeah.
CN
どうの話ですか。
What do you mean?
TY
Yeah, うちのおずさすごい写真となり弟よ。
Yeah, there is a great photo of my brother .
Carolyn moves towards a photo.
CN
これは?
This one?
TY
Yeah. Mmhmm,
Carolyn moves back to her seat.
CN
これは日本に取りましたか。
Was this taken in Japan?
TY
はい。
Yes.
CN
日本ですか。
This is Japan?
TY
No, no, no, no.
TY
ここよ。
Yeah, here in Canada.
CN
どうの話ですか。
What are you wanting to talk about?
TY
この子はね.
This child, you see,
CN
はい。
Yeah?
TY
あの、42年なくなったの。
He passed away in 1942.
CN
そうですか!?
Is that so!?
TY
子供二人出来てね。男の子と女の子と。もうこの子死んでmeもびっくりしたよ。
My parents were able to have two children. A boy and a girl. That my brother passed away so quickly really surprised me.
CN
急になくなりましたか。
He passed away suddenly?
TY
まったく、この子だった一人のみのずっといるのに死んでしまってと思って、まあでもyou忘れんわ。いい子だったこの子。優しい子だね。本当にどこ行くんでもめさどこ行くんやでくかいというでどこでもnoと言ったことない子。うちでばかり出た、もうけた来るでと言ってよ。その子やね。Hmm,まあ、もう一人やの皆死んで誰もない。(家族)ももすしんでしまったな。Ahh, どのぐらいふめことないんで。(さびしい)な。
I still can’t believe it. Even though he was always alone, I thought he would pass away, but I don’t know. He was a great kid. A very kind kid. Really, if you said he needed to go some where, he would never say he couldn’t. He was always leaving the house, and then coming back. That kid, you know? Well, I am alone now; everyone has passed on. My family has passed away, too. Ahh, how long before my time as well. It’s lonely, you know?
CN
本当に。弟さんはもうスティブステンに住んでいましたか。
That’s very true; getting older is difficult. Did your brother also live in Steveston?
TY
はい、はい。
Yeah, he did.
CN
はい。Fishermanだったのか。
Yeah, was he also a fisherman?
TY
Ahhh, no. この子は違う。Fishermanじゃなかったね。
Ah, no he wasn’t; he was not a fisherman.
CN
どんな仕事?
What type of work did he do?
TY
ちょっと(ぼうし) 働いたりあのことしてしたな。お(しかん) なとこ 働いていたな。またしきない。Cancerだ言ったりね。パパ好きない言ったからね。あなことしてしたこの子。
He worked a little doing preventative jobs. He worked for a government office. I think dealing with things like cancer because my dad said he didn’t really like it. My brother did things like that.
00:55:53.000
00:55:53.000
CN
Greenwoodに住んでいましたか。
Did he live in Greenwood?
TY
はい?
Sorry?
CN
はい。この弟さん?
Yeah, your younger brother?
TY
はい。
Yes.
CN
Greenwoodですか。
Did he live in Greenwood?
TY
はい。
Yes.
CN
はい。どの年ぐらい?
Okay, for how many years?
TY
そうね。この子、まあ、あまり知ってなかった。
That’s right. But, I didn’t really know him.
CN
そうですか。
Is that so?
TY
うん。
Yeah.
CN
そんなに年下ですか。
He was that young?
TY
この子?
My brother?
CN
はい。弟さんは?
Yeah, your brother, right?
TY
うん?
Yeah?
CN
Greenwoodでした?
Was it in Greenwood?
TY
うん。この子な。ホンマにカソリック(れいご)だったけどこうろと死んでしまった。ああ、はっただけどな。いい子だったこの子優しかったよ。そのしゅたのよ。こ、これ欲しいともこれも欲しいんや言ってかい.安心よ言った、あの、そのとりやな。Hmm. ママもしにパパもしにだった一人の(うらがわ)死んでしまって。寂しいね。
Yeah, but you know he was a hard-line Catholic. Despite that, he still passed away. Ah, but he had things to do. He was a really great and kind kid though. He would say things like I want this and that, right? And he would say he was relieved. Just things like that. Hmm, but now my mother and father have passed and I am left on my back alone to wait for my time. It’s lonely.
CN
寂しいですね。
Yeah, it is, but it will be okay.
TY
だからいつもあの写真と話するほど。速う何してそんなに急goになって。どこいい子でも、ねさ行くからって。そしてそれでボベったよよな。あんたも兄弟何人もおるの?
That’s why I always try to talk about that photo most of all. What made him pass on so quickly? He was a great kid anywhere he went always saying he was going. And it has been a while since I got to talk about him. Do you also have any siblings?
CN
私は兄が一人います。
I have one older brother.
TY
ああ、そうね。
Ah, really?
CN
はい。
Yeah.
Terumi laughs. Movement in the room can be heard. Someone can be heard adjusting their position. Pause.
TY
あんとえひらひらやな。 A conversation can be heard in the background. うちの裏でゆうったた入ってやろううってよゆうって皆自分の(えい)から持ってきた。いっぱいよ。子供だよ。
You are moving lots eh? A conversation can be heard in the background. Behind me people were always talking and entering, and everyone brings their families. The place is full of kids.
CN
子供ら?ない?
Kids? There are no more kids?
TY
なお大きはないほら持って行くんや。あかないともう送っちゃたんや。お金払い買って言ってやん。出るあいは今日 いつはどのぐらい Terumi laughs.分かるからな。自分(おくとく)ないほら色々の持っていこうんや。まあ、子供もないのは寂しいけどあのも煩いな. Terumi laughs. 皆子供ないの方寂しいやれって言うけどまったく、まあ、子供もはな煩いわ。何買ったらTerumi makes a low grunting sound. ああ、知らないな。まあな、ないのはあらま 寂しいけどね。
Furthermore, they aren’t big and they bring them. It can’t be opened but it is completely sent to me. Saying things like pay the money and we’ll buy this. Going out for meetings and thinking when today we can meet? Because I wonder Terumi laughs. how much is being understood. I don’t have a special inner part, rather I have many different aspects and feelings. Well, having no children around is lonely, but they are also so loud. Terumi laughs. It is normal to say not having kids around can make it lonely, but good grief they are so loud. If I buy something Terumi makes a low grunting sound.well, I don’t know. Anyway, not having kids around is lonely but, you know,
Carolyn laughs.
CN
本当に。
I know what you mean.
TY
moneyあったら子供らは何育ってあんなね悪いことよな. 顔おらへんもあるか。
If you have money, what type of children will be brought up, you know? They could be spoiled. I wonder if they would show their faces to you.
CN
他に、戦争の時について話ありますか。思い出とか. A loud male voice can be heard in the background. 話したいことがありますか。 戦争の時
Do you have any other things to talk about regarding the war? Maybe some of your memories? A loud male voice can be heard in the background. Anything you want to talk about but haven’t yet? From the time during the war?
TY
もう私(いらわね). あのカソリックのなんで行ったよね頃ぐらい、 In Greenwoodに会ったな。良かったよ。
I already don’t need anything. Why did that Catholic person go around that time, you know? It was a good thing we met in Greenwood.
CN
Greenwoodは?
You met in Greenwood?
TY
うん。
Yeah.
CN
Hmm.
TY
よかってなん。たいていは member とそして今ずっといるそんな多かったね. A door opens in the background. Fay returns to the room.
It was good. Almost being a member, and now being a part of it for such a long time. A door opens in the background. Fay returns to the room.
CN
何が良かった、 Greenwoodで?
What was good? Was it in Greenwood?
TY
よかったって、同じとこやな話なおうでしょう。
When I say good, I mean being in the same place and being able to talk, you know?
01:00:20.000
01:00:20.000
TY
ね。だから良かったよ。
That’s why it was good; we were together.
CN
皆が一緒に住むことが出来たとか?
Everyone was able to live together?
TY
男子time おと学校するとこ。それが、all day やからね。キャンプにいたのむよ。
There was boys time, and people could go to school. Because that was the whole day, you know? Even though we were in a camp.
CN
楽しかったんですか。
Was it fun?
TY
Yeah! 早く行かなったらも高校ないも出来なかった all day で,
Yeah! If we didn’t go early we couldn’t go to high school and we couldn’t go for the whole day.
CN
遊びとかいっぱい? Carolyn laughs.
Was it just fooling around most of the day? Carolyn laughs.
TY
でもな、あんな あなた 煩い。(けんか)したりなあ、みやおった。これもあるこのえきも煩いなあと思って。もうそして喧嘩のsource決まっているの。ああ、何やろうも言ったや。このこと話して言っていたらもrule入ってやってみにお言ったや。同じ煩いなってからよ。そんなにいつでも喧嘩するの。Ahh, こうこしたライス(たいた)ここないけったもう売りたっとかね。あんなことで喧嘩よね。これはなあ(せい)はないけど煩いなと思った。速う(れい)も自分は聞きたいなと思ってまったくな。もうないやな。Greenwoodからあるわたい言ってもやりやりと思ったな。まああるはたいてい冬は行ったけどね。水もないのよ。水かんなんでしょう。だからなお煩かったな。Cabbage後肉もない。これも後煩いなと思って、まあはいよな出きた良かったけど。いいこと何もなかったわ。なあ。 A loud male voice can be heard in the background. 何言ってはない?
But, you were noisy. Doing things like fighting with Miya around. I kept thinking these things were so annoying. The source of the fighting had already been determined though. People would say things like what are we going to do and such talk like that, and when that was said we tried to create rules. Because it was the same thing over and over again and it was annoying. Those things caused fights all the time. Things like having no warm rice left, or a desired item being sold out. They also led to fights. You see there was no order, that’s what I think was annoying. People also wanted to be appreciated for their work, but there was no appreciation. Even though it was said things would get better from Greenwood, it continued from there I thought. Well we pretty much went in Winter, so there was no water or watering cans, right? That is why there was so much trouble. We had no cabbage and meat. And I thought this was also frustrating. Well, it’s over now; it’s good that we made it through that experience. But, there was nothing good about it. A loud male voice can be heard in the background. What did you say?
CN
Hmm? No.
FJ
Hmm, nothing.
TY
Nothing?
FJ
No
TY
No?
CN
No,
FJ
It's good.
CN
Yeah, 戦争後にスティブステンに帰った時にどんな気持ちでしたか。
Yeah, when you went back to Steveston, how did you feel?
TY
Mhmm, やっぱり自分のハウスは良かったな。懐かしかったな。Long time 笑っているな。またGreenwood
IngwoodはGreenwoodだと思います。
行っていた人な。あっち行きこっち行きな。まったく色々あった。もう(しまい)でやるかい。
Mhmm, I thought your own house is certainly the best. I had really missed the feeling of being home. We laughed for a long time. Other people from Greenwood were going to Steveston, too.
I think Ingwood is actually Greenwood.
Being told to go here then go there. Good grief there were a lot of troublesome things. But, shall we finish?
CN
うん。はい。 Terumi laughs. ありがとうございました。
Yeah. Yes. Terumi laughs. Thank you very much.
TY
皆な、もったいもってもだしめあるまたやな。言ってしまってね。もっと一回で一人いないな。 Pause. そしてもうない色々思った懐かしいな。
Everyone, again has put more important things before me. I unfortunately have to say it though. One more time I will be alone again. Pause. I don’t have anything more, I thought about lots and it’s brought back lots of memories for me.
CN
ここで終わりましょうか。
Shall we end here?
TY
うん。
Yes,
CN
はい。はい。ありがとうございました。本当に。
Okay, thank you very much. Really. Directed towards Fay. Thank you.
FJ
Oh, my pleasure.
TY
もうゆっくりしないよ。
I am not slow anymore, you know.
Carolyn and Fay both laugh. 01:04:10.000

Metadata

Title

Terumi Yamamoto and Fay Jensen, interviewed by Carolyn Nakagawa, 19 March 2018

Abstract

Time Period: 1920's to Present
Fay Jensen and Terumi Yamamoto work in unison to describe various aspects of Terumi ’s life. They cover her childhood in Japan on her grandmother’s silk worm and indigo plantation, and the difficulties she faced being born in Canada but growing up in Japan. Terumi and Fay discuss Terumi ’s life before the war in Steveston, during the war, and then Terumi ’s experiences after the war in Lethbridge and moving back to the westcoast. They talk about the rough conditions of Greenwood, the difficulties of working on the sugar beat farms in Lethbridge, the loss of property Terumi ’s family experienced such as their farm, truck, and horse; and about the types of work her family did when they moved back after the war. Terumi talks about having her marriage and having children. Terumi mentions she is Catholic and the involvement of a Catholic priest in the internment of Japanese Canadians. Fay discusses the Redress movement for Japanese Canadians and her feelings towards it. Terumi reminisces about her younger brother before finishing the interview.

Credits

Interviewee: Terumi Yamamoto
Interviewee: Fay Jensen
Interviewer: Carolyn Nakagawa
Transcriber: Nathaniel Hayes
Translater: Nathaniel Hayes
Publication Information: See Terms of Use for publication and licensing information.
Setting: Richmond, British Columbia, Canada
Keywords: Steveston ; Lethbridge ; Greenwood ; Mio Village ; America Village ; Catholic ; Japan ; Canada ; Japanese-Canadian Redress ; Japanese; Kika-Nisei; farming; religion; Japan ; loss; childhood

Terminology

Readers of these historical materials will encounter derogatory references to Japanese Canadians and euphemisms used to obscure the intent and impacts of the internment and dispossession. While these are important realities of the history, the Landscapes of Injustice Research Collective urges users to carefully consider their own terminological choices in writing and speaking about this topic today as we confront past injustice. See our statement on terminology, and related sources here.