Irene and Norman Tsuyuki, interviewed by Tatsuo Kage and Interviewer 2, 01 January 1991

Recording starts. Microphone is being moved and adjusted.—It’ll be fiftieth anniversary. Shuffling continues.

There’s going to be lots of—reunions in the next year. Laughs.

Actually in October, in Vancouver, there will be a big conference.

Seniors conference.

Yeah seniors, but we want to get younger people involved, and a lot of reunions. Long pause, more shuffling, adjusting, unintelligible voices and laughing.

Ok I’m going to ask you to introduce yourself, just your birth date, place of birth, and any account of childhood that you would care to pass on to us. Pause and some shuffling

I’m Irene Tetsuko Tsuyuki. I was born nee Kato, and I was born in Vancouver on Powell Street—now I don’t know which block it was, but let’s see, December the 3rd, 1925. And I attended Strathcona Elementary School. So, I graduated in 1942, the year of the evacuation. Fortunately I was able to finish off the term because we weren’t evacuated until October, end of October, due to my father’s illness at that time. And—Pause. What else?

Do you remember anything in particular about Strathcona school at that time? Your graduation—I remember the graduation ceremony in that particular summer.

Yes yes it was very nice. I have very good reflection of our principal Mr. Patterson at that time. He was a very very compassionate person, and he really felt for us Japanese students. And I think I was one of the very few who were able to remain and finish off the term. But actually, the teachers were very, very nice. I didn’t have any unpleasant memories at that time.

Do you remember the school and it’s mottos, schoolmate nationalities in general at that time?

(unclear). School with many nationalities, but one flag. Pause. Yes we had a number of different nationalities there, but I think they all compound (unclear).

And a vast majority was. . .

Oh yes, Orientals, Japanese and the Chinese.

Do you remember the number of school children at that time? Recording feedback increases. Maruyama say there were about a thousand, it was a really large public school.

I think so, but. . .

More than half was Japanese. Pause. Do you remember anything else about school in terms of kind of atmosphere?

No, I don’t think it was really that much unpleasantness, because I didn’t think I remember if there was, Pause. I would have certainly remembered it. Pause. Oh, there might have been some odd instances but, I would say it’s (unclear).

Do you recall anything in particular about, let’s say, life at Powell Street at that time, just before the war, (unclear).

Unintelligible voices overlap. No, how, because I was about Pause. No, I don’t really have any recollection. . .

At one time I heard a whole bunch of Strathcona students goes to the Go Gakkou on Alexander Street. Are you one of the (unclear) going en masse?

Yes I went to Japanese school, everyday after I was done at Strathcona.

Do you—Japanese children are getting together all the time and isolated from the other students or were you mixed up at Strathcona school?

Is this at Strathcona? Oh, well I think we mixed very well but—as it was, because there was Orientals, that there would be groups of Orientals together but, no I used to associate with the other kids too, and especially the ones in the same class. And the Chinese, unfortunately we didn’t get along, sometimes we’d fight. Laughs. Fight one day and next day we’re fine, you know expect certain amount of that I guess. But on the whole, (unclear). Pause. I really don’t remember any specific unpleasantness at that time.

Do you remember (unclear)?

Yes.

(unclear).

Oh yes, Mother and I, we used to go to David Spencer and Hudson’s Bay. Like shopping at David Spencer.

What was your feeling when the war came on and you had to . . . Recording aide interrupts to change the tapes. Loud clattering and movement overlaps with quiet unintelligible speech.

Recording aide asks Irene to speak louder as they resume the interview. Well what else would you like me to say? A pause and more clattering before recording aide indicates they can resume.

Okay, let’s hear that story about Mr. Patterson, we missed that.

Mr. Patterson, yes, Mr. Patterson was our principal. He was a really wonderful person, really. I guess he was almost perfect principal and person, very very understanding, very compassionate. Pause.

Loud motorcycle in the background. One thing that really stuck in my mind was, I was on the prefect system, and one day he said, “I wish all the students were like the Japanese students, I never—in all my years of teaching have I ever had distractable Japanese students. They are so well behaved,” he said. I’m really proud, and you know, I’ve not forgotten that. Pause. I don’t think you find a teacher or principal of that caliber every. . . Pause. That’s one of the best things I remember of Strathcona school. Naturally, most of the teachers were very nice, very understanding. Even after the war started, they were the same, they never changed.

What sort of ambitions or dreams did you have when you were finishing your grade 8?

Well, let’s put it this way, my parents had plans for me, so when I finished from Strathcona, I was to attend Britannia High and then off to UBC! I didn’t know what to pursue but they wanted me to get a university education. So I believe in (unclear). I just had a grade 8 education, and then the United Church, the missionaries, started a correspondence class which eventually was recognized as a high school. Pause and motorcycle noise in the background.. So I’m going back to the evacuation. I think what really bothered me, my father was quite ill. In fact he was in the hospital when Pearl Harbor started. And up until then, he was saying how good he was treated by the doctors and the nurses, so good to him. Then December 7th came and he was very very unhappy because everything all of a sudden had changed. And he said he just didn’t want to stay here anymore because he was so uncomfortable, and he knew that they were—they sort of thought that he was the enemy. And I guess that he must have totally stopped it, such as the case and that he didn’t want to stay there very much longer. But then I don’t know exactly how much longer he had to stay. Shortly after that I guess he got discharged and came home, but he was not really up to doing anything because he—I think it was his heart (unclear). And when the evacuation started, my mother, she impressed that we remain in Vancouver as long as we can, and so he said that’s fine, just keep—as long as possible. It wasn’t until we were finally evacuated but they sent my father in an ambulance to Tashme.

I was saying to before mother and went and so, and yeah. My mother and I to pack up and clean up, all that was to be done. Which meant my mother had to pay up the bills, good business, and to everybody else that was (unclear). And then she and I, we packed all the stuff in the house which they had lived in for oh—let’s see, must have been probably around 1936. . . So many Pause. many many things had accumulated, and I remember mother and I stayed up practically half the night packing the things to send to the storage, because we couldn’t take everything. And so by the time they came to, get on the train and go to Tashme. Goodness we were being seated and Mother was in a terrible mood when we went to the train station. She, the RCMP. . . Understand, she must have made some kind of comment or did something because. . . I can’t remember what she said, but I know she was mad. She just, told me something in broken English. So that’s—that really had an effect on me. And why a person who’s had to be moved in such a way that. . . Pause. Didn’t know why it was so necessary and I thought, my dad didn’t do anything wrong. And I think that really—not so much for myself, but I felt my father, even my mother too, because they had it so hard and you know, some (unclear). Anyways, soon as he got to Tashme, they had a temporary hospital there, just a small one. And, I can’t remember how long he was in there for. Anyways, once we got there and we got a room in the old barn, one of the two barns. They made an upstairs, a downstairs and we had the corner room downstairs and that winter (unclear). All the, I knew aches ropes. . . (unclear). Difficult to hear Irene And you know, in, so cramped, that small room, one little bed, one single bed, close to together. The kitchen part was just a small little corner, and the dresser, and I think she had a sewing machine. And that’s about it, a few chairs. You could hardly move, because it was so crowded. And the next, you know the bomb was dropped in Hiroshima and so there are not enough (unclear) and you could hear a pin drop, from across the hallway (unclear). Difficult to hear Irene.

My father being ill, and then having to be sent to the camp in an ambulance, it was Pause. something. So then after that it was (unclear) of be healthy. And so this is the reason why after four years there, decided, I think I change this way, to go to Japan, because he just couldn’t see himself moving out east and starting all over. And by this time my mother was not doing too well either so both of them couldn’t, could not, and if we moved to Japan, we could get a house and he used to go and visit his father, so that when he does, he gets to stay in his father’s (unclear). Noise on recording makes Irene hard to understand. He could know all this happened to him, and he was very bitter. Because he was a naturalized Canadian and he had lived in this country all those years. Deep inside, he wanted to stay here. But he had no choice, because it would be either get out and move out east or move to Japan. He just picked the best—absolute of the situation. Why did he want to go to Japan, but perhaps he should’ve maybe stayed in Canada. Regardless being wronged, the years (unclear). . .

What was it like for you, to go to Japan?

Well I had been there quite a few times before when I quite young, for holiday. So it was different this time because we were staying, all of a sudden. And at the time, I didn’t exactly (unclear) that we were staying, but my first goal I talked about was to get a job, and I think that I—it’s for my parents and it was kind of a unique Loud recording click. (unclear). I decided to work for a Japanese company, doing interpretation Pause. job. Allowed to make—in job—you have to, especially when you work for companies and. . . You know, you have to have some qualifications, I mean, you can’t just speak the language and be able to interpret properly. I tried staying with the company but I wasn’t very happy anyways because all the Japanese-speaking (unclear) spoke English. Pause. I just felt, I have to get out, and meet all these English-speaking people somewhere. So with luck I find Joe, the environmental (unclear). So there were quite a few Americans in the same situation as I was. And some Canadian Nisei. Also Pause. (unclear). There were quite a few mixed marriages and Japanese-Germans, whether—multi-racial, (unclear). So I was much happier (unclear). Loud recording click.

I—after I came back, I wanted to have my parents move here. . . Because they requested they come back here, unfortunately at that time, especially—they had repatriated. . . the only resolution. . . And so I—I wrote many times but and they just they couldn’t accept the application. So then I have them over for a visit and actually, but needed a permit to come over. . . I think they had given her a permit to come for a visit but unfortunately she became ill, and Pause. she never made it, Pause. she passed away. Loud motorcycle in background. And so after my mother passed away, then it was just my father. So then I wrote back to Ottawa saying—now this is in the mid ’50s. And I thought by this time, they should have (unclear). At first, well, they didn’t think that it was possible, but I kept at it and I said that I’m the only next-of-kin and that my father was old (unclear) enter Canada again. So anyways, after three or four months, they agreed under compassionate case, now they weren’t doing that right, but because they felt that it was a compassionate case that he would be able to reenter. Pause. But again, unfortunately my father passed away before the letter came saying. . . Pause. But I think deep inside, he knew that he was—would be able to come back here because apparently he was packed, he had things packed to bring back here—anyway I guess made arrangements to—for his property—I guess he was really eager to. . . So I guess he. . . It was hard, to me, he was quite happy and anticipated returning to Canada. I’m just, Pause. very disappointed. . . To this day. Pause. It’s really unfortunate because by this time of year—quite healthy—he would have been very very elderly to come back. Perhaps may have lived to see redress—achieved. He would have been quite old but. . .

How did you manage to get back?

I Noise interference makes Irene unintelligible (unclear). And they said that since I was Canadian-born, that if I have sponsors, I can be able to come back. And so, my father moved to go back (unclear), we were talking to a family friend. Pause. My father said, if you—going back—when the state opened up, seek it out and may he aid you. We wrote to my husband’s father and he said, “of course, by all means.” And they just—that’s the only way I was, to come back, and that was in December, 1949.

And you went to, August ’46 to 1949?.

When we left Canada? Yes, August the 2nd, 1946. And I returned—I think I came here in December so ’49.

So all this dealing back and forth, writing letters to the government, gave you a lot of, let’s say, an understanding of how to deal with kind of bureaucracy and government.

Yes I guess I. . . Noise interference makes Irene hard to understand—sorry, and trying to get my parents. Pause. Well I have felt a sense of achievement, Loud click in recording. they finally acknowledge that they would accept his application to re-enter—under compassionate case. You know, I thought that was quite good. I guess—stood up, and my father couldn’t live to see—to hear that, or even to come back here. I guess that was the disappointing part. . . Pause. And, when I was in Japan, I contacted the Embassy to get my passport back. Loud click in recording.

And your father was naturalized (unclear).

No, because they said that both my mother and father, they were naturalized Canadians but they relinquished their rights at the end. . . But I guess that was difference between Canadian-born and naturalizing. Pause.

Irene, can we get Loud cough on recording. the context on how you dealt with the government again in terms of your parents property and all that? What you had to do and were expected to go through?

That would be when we were in Tashme.

Where—when in Canada?

Well, when I was in Vancouver, I didn’t have anything much to get. But during the years in Tashme, I wrote a few letters for my father in regards to, what he had—three properties, to the state. One on Main, one on Powell Street, and our residence, and sort of, some letters written about the rent. . . And also I thought—well, we had a lot of things stored, in (unclear) storage. (unclear), right up til the time, I think happily—the payment was being—until. . . end of ’46. Pause. So those things—some of the things that were there Papers are shuffled and make it hard to hear Irene’s voice. leaving for Japan because you—had picked Japan, you were allowed to take whatever belongings we had. . . Pause. But, one thing that I—see I don’t have too much recollection, it’s just here and there, because I was brought up—anything to do with business, anything Loud audio peak in recording. that they were talking about or discussing, I was closed my ears. I would—I don’t know how you were brought up but I knew that that was no place for children, so just don’t pay any attention.

But before you move on to Tashme, my dad got a cheque from the government for all the, you know, all the different sales from the bank for the state. And first time I have ever seen my father cry, because he was so disappointed and I don’t even know how much it was, the amount. And, because I think he had it all figured out, how much he was paid. And whatever he got, in that cheque, he was resentful, it was grim. And he kept repeating, I will not cash this cheque, because he said, “if I cash, that means that I accept.” And he says, “I never cash this cheque.” That’s the end of that, because I don’t know—I think—whether he insisted and keep—whether he may have cashed it later or what he did with it, I don’t know, I have no—I didn’t found out until I—I suppose I didn’t dare ask, what did you do with the cheque, because it’s not your business. That’s all I remember him saying. Phone rings loudly in the background. (unclear).

We’ll stop (unclear). Loud shuffling near the recorder. Quiet voices discuss the recording and long pause. Recording aide and Interviewer 2 discuss changing the tapes. Okay, I’d like to know Irene, you know, Someone coughs. the kind of thing that finally accommodated and returned to Canada. In your case, in what ways did you arrive at a reason to come back to Canada—to want to come back to (unclear)—Vancouver, come back to west coast. Why not some other, (unclear) Canada? Did you ever think of that?

Well I think it’s because when I did come back, I came back under a sponsorship, and I felt that Shuffling around the recorder makes it hard to hear Irene. they didn’t help me out—help me to get back, and I should at least stick with them for a while. And I helped out a little. But in the meantime, I married my husband, Laughs. so therefore, he—his parents were in the greenhouse business in Haney. And my husband wanted to pursue that, and to do that, well, he thought that the west coast was a good place because his father was in Haney, and he built up his business.

And instead of going back to Haney, he thought perhaps he move further out where they—you know Haney gets—a lot of rain you know, and he heard you can get on the serving train to White Rock there might be a little bit sunnier. So therefore he and his family came out and (unclear). Perhaps if I stayed single, I may have pursued some other. . . Pause.

You mentioned about going back to Japan and you had a job, it was a company. And you have certain kind of adjustment problems when you went back to Japan. My question is that, when you came back to Canada, and you know people there, still you have a different experience with other people you know who continue to stay in Canada, but you left Canada after back again. But did you find any difference between yourself and other people quite close to you? That’s—do you understand what I. . . ask?

Yes, yes. No, not really. Pause. Perhaps if I had stayed there longer I may have felt some difference but Pause. Loud cough. I really didn’t. . .

Kage says something difficult to make out to the side. So you are—liked talking to us—your old folks kinds of feeling you had?

More or less, more or less, you know. . . Long pause. Rustling movement in the background as they wrap up this portion of the interview.

Recording is set up again, indistinct talking as the recording aide is getting it ready again. Okay Norman, can you give us an introduction of yourself and your birthday, and what it is that you make and what challenges you. . .

Okay. My name is Takaaki Tsuyuki, now I picked the name Norman after the evacuation. Born on January twenty. . . four, Irene whispers correct birth date. 26! Yeah. Laughs. 1924, in Haney. Loud clinking of plates make Norm hard to hear. (unclear) Went to the (unclear). Went to the (unclear) school, which had about two thirds was Japanese, the other third was Caucasian. And. . .

Do I understand correct that your father delivered you?

Yup yup!

Interviewer is unintelligible.

Group laughs. Well him being a midwife. Those days, on this—you know like the wife was in trouble, you would call in the doctor. The, yeah you would have to go to the. . . But, he would—this ranch in Burnaby, every year cow, cattle. The midwife. That’s why neighbour with Pause. children went out to help all the time, so we had to help out. Laughs.

Your father was quite a remarkable person.

Well I guess in those days, you know, Plates clink. you had to do the thing that cost less money. Norm pauses and there is a loud cough. Ah, let’s see now, childhood childhood. . . School, I guess, my friends were (unclear) and I used to spend a lot of time with Caucasians. I would—after school, I would go and (unclear). So I loved (unclear) and wanted a place to keep (unclear) Loud plates clink. asians. Pause. So, from public school, about—in later years, what kind of loss. . . Norm is hard to understand. . . .All I can say is, what it would be like. (unclear) . . .back in classes, that happened, and then I went to high school. Here, it was quite different. But managed Pause. to keep up, barely but maybe, 12, 12 students, I guess it was, 8, 10, class. So, it wasn’t bad. But I see different (unclear) at school times, and after lunch she would, (unclear). . . middle of some other school behaviours. . . (unclear). Papers rustle and the recording cuts out for about a minute. Recording resumes in the middle of Norm talking. My brother would go for a walk—well we would all go for a walk, head right to school, it was good. And (unclear). . . So in the last day of grade 11, any Japanese that was going to school, didn’t have to, Pause. go road camps. So, after two months or something like that, I could go back to school. And the teacher wouldn’t say it like that but, just how upset she must feel to go. And the worst part is to not say at all how. And I managed to pass this time and we stayed up till the end of August, in the end of August basically, (unclear) so I took my brother to school at the school, (unclear) school. So then, August the 31st, we went into (unclear) and they said, oh would you go east self-supporting (unclear), which was in Lillooet. So a change of (unclear)—water, it was really nice, loved Christina. So that was there, and the whole family was there. First time (unclear) and new house, and after that was (unclear) . . .Christina Lake.

And then Pearl Harbor came, and your father was sent inland? Interviewer talks quietly, making him difficult to hear.

Yeah, sent to the working camps.

What was your reaction to that?

Well, it was, you know, curfew—curfew. (unclear) So they—basically he—I’d show them (unclear). Laughs. So, Pause. you know like, we weren’t allowed to own a car, radio, camera, nothing like that. So we had to go out into the (unclear) dealer. And the car, transfer the boat—truck, transfer the boat (unclear). And for our bringing, we hired a driver, a Caucasian driver, drove them to us Pause. to keep that. . . Pause. for help. What happened was, we were able to take this truck over to Lillooet. So then we transferred—the police came and transferred the truck over to our dealer, so I drove into town, (unclear) this colleague Benjamin Thyme—he’s a Jap that drives a car into town, here, you know, because we got license, I got to (unclear) to Irene. And I started giving people rides, so that’s what I did. But then, we loaded the (unclear), kind of truck, and set the truck up and (unclear) 100 miles, so—trunk there were eight of us.

As you were saying, when you were in school, (unclear) Interviewer 2’s voice is unintelligible.

Yeah but towards Japanese, want to take Asian, in high school—

You didn’t have (unclear) friendly?

Well, there was, you know, something—it was much smart kids in there. . . But generally, Pause. this, but anyways there’s a game shintori—kintori or (unclear). So, Pause. I mean, (unclear) as far as parents concerned it wasn’t too much, just amongst our age group, young adults, (unclear).

Are you the first born—the oldest?

Yeah, I’m the first born of the family of five, five kids. I’m the second one, three below me are boys, one above me is girl. And Pause. (unclear).

So when you were—coming back to—Noise in the recording muffles part of Interviewer 2’s question. (unclear) when you heard the news at Pearl Harbor, how did that spike your memory—an inkling. . .

Well, Pause. it didn’t, it didn’t mean too much, because it was just (unclear) came on. Then, just like this, my father was conscripted into the Army, where we were (unclear) in this ranch thing, it was owned by (unclear). Pause. And then, he was hauled back into the Army. These newspaper man would get a detention paper and serve it to the Arabs, and then he’d bring back, so that happened about three times.

So when this Hastings Park came up, I was going to the dentist once one day, this RCMP came and says, “you have to go Hastings Park.” I say, “Well why do I have to go to Hastings Park?” I said, “my father served in the First World War. Why do I have to (unclear). . .” Oh, he says, “well that’s what I was told, so.” Then, next day, me and my father went to see the RCMP, but it was too far, stayed there three, four hours, but I had to go to work for something. And then what happened was the evacuation order came—that they—then Dad says to me, (unclear). So in Haney, we got about two car loads, about two railroad cars, and whoever was able to put—(unclear) jump inside the car, (unclear). So as far as the evacuation order, or Pearl Harbor, it didn’t have too much effect on me.

And your father?

Yeah, well, you know, he’d say it’s private business, best keep it quiet. (unclear).

How do you think he felt?

Well, father knows best, so I guess keep quiet.

Did he ever talk about Pause. how he was feeling? About the war?

Well, he was bitter, I mean, you know, evacuation time, a white man comes to the door and just Pause. he didn’t want to be there, that’s all. Pause. I guess the Pause. verbal agreement that he made with his white friends, next door neighbour, was (unclear) because—store, (unclear). But when he told (unclear) the farm, it was no help (unclear). That year he came over his (unclear) and then for two years he was (unclear), then a third year (unclear) he went to, he says, it’s all for sale. Which I agreed, (unclear) Norm is unintelligible . . .dollars. And you pay that amount—amount of money, and then (unclear) go back (unclear). So he was going to have to (unclear). But 1950–1951, he came back, he went to the same place, he says, “okay, Bill,” he says, “we’re back now, what about the proposal? We shook hands, happy about it, see.” But same issue, no one answered. Here, sweat just pouring out of his (unclear), face is red, sweats coming out of (unclear), threw water on the table. But after him, what happened (unclear). And then he started writing down. . . He says, “Alice,”—Alice is his wife, makes him coffee right away, “right away!” Pause. But then, I didn’t know, that he went to—he put in a bid—somebody else. He put in a bid of $8,000 dollars, declines because he guessed the waiter on, who’s at the (unclear). He’s mad about the land eh,.

Your sister?

Huh?

Your sister.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My sister, forgive me. The (unclear) thing about $15,000 dollars is so—I mean it’s just by chance. If Mr. Ross kids (unclear) worry about money, it’s his house, it’s just, hope that—costs price. But then these (unclear) they were just (unclear). So if you got that, (unclear) what would have happened if you gave it, if it would have come back to you. Pause. Hold on to some other (unclear). But he had this idea that he could come back and make do with what’s there. So he settled in, Pause. Haney, being 30 miles from where I grew up, Surrey, find a place in Surrey. So after about a week of looking around, he’s had it, he settled with Surrey. Pause. That’s where the (unclear) are. Even though Haney (unclear), he loves Haney, was in Surrey, Pause. When he (unclear) back in his, direct (unclear).

Did you father—just said, okay, we just have to Pause. getting any kind of satisfaction. And your father, right?

Yeah.

And his friend, gave him a short (unclear).

Yeah, yup. That was mostly—

Interviewer interjects. They came back in (unclear).

Yeah yeah, those days, I mean that was—part of the—he’s honest enough. Norm chuckles. You know, to my rethinking now, I mean—just shake hands, but those days, I guess he was (unclear).

But the other side of the deal. . .

No, I mean it was good deal then, 1937–1947, I was (unclear)—what’s tomato price right now? $20 dollars a piece? (unclear) No fruits or vegetable came from the property United States, so Canada had to rely on what it produced. So because what he’s—seed, that’s why he couldn’t. . . Norm trails off

Interviewer 2 asks a question but it is unintelligible.

What? Those days I mean, shake hands, I mean that’s all they needed. But, Norm chuckles. legally it’s not bad to have that in writing.

Interviewer 2 asks a question but is unintelligible.

Well, it is what it is I guess. He came in—16 years old. It’s my feeling that—he hasn’t been back, you know fifteen years, you know. . . And when he did go back to Japan, see (unclear), he came to Canada with his—what his age. . . He was only 9, but then after that the second time he went back, I was only 6 or so (unclear). People in Japan, keep talking to him about how he does it because—(unclear) he had to bring, Pause. build everything up from scratch. I remembering him blasting in winter time, he would clear the land, and plant strawberries, and then he would go out to work. (unclear), soil in the spring, summer—he would get out. And then, fall would come back—till his strawberries because he got strawberries planted that he would stay (unclear). Tall in plastic, (unclear) and it was too small—I would have (unclear). So he used to pass me—he would send me down (unclear), said the growing seeds (unclear) over there, so I go inside the home and put the (unclear) clay to back it up so (unclear). And then—that’s almost what I did, see a lot of stumps, that—you know, log and cut, stumps, and then we had to get rid of the stumps to (unclear). So that’s what farmers, they have to blast, using (unclear)powder, blast then burn, and take out the forest, shrubbery.

So what happened was that you came back after the (unclear)?

Yeah yeah in ’51.

(unclear) project?

Yeah, Father didn’t want to go back into greenhouse, so he went it to strawberries, and raspberries. And, he lived until 1983, until the age of 93 and then. . . And 1951, me and my brother-in-law, we started (unclear), so we (unclear). But the land is not as (unclear) as it was in Haney, but Haney—there is one advantage of living in the frost. (unclear) is frost. So, I guess in his way doing it, he had strawberries first, and then raspberries, and then added trees. So, and then he went back into greenhouses. So, Rustling on the recording makes it hard to hear Norm. Loud throat clearing. I guess getting into greenhouse was incredible (unclear) strawberries and raspberries here just (unclear). . .

And you carried on that business? You carried on that work, until. . .

Yeah, until I got too old and then the government (unclear). Norm says something quietly. (unclear)—son, he’s looking after, (unclear). Long pause. So it’s, you know—I was in Ottawa, (unclear) I wanted to see these archives, so I (unclear) to see the micro, micro. . . Someone too quiet to identify says, “fiche?” Huh?

Microfilm.

Yeah microfilm. So they had to go into the (unclear), white family, (unclear) potatoes, so they would know who they were so, when we got there, (unclear) about three weeks—three months later. So, some of the things that all went down, Father’s communication, secondary (unclear), Custodian (unclear). So now Loud coughs. got it, but we just see it, that’s for all (unclear). . . (unclear) the documents. . .

What did you find out (unclear)? Motorcycle in the background drowns out the rest of the question.

Yeah well, what the property sold for and, Pause. the verbal agreement that he made, sure—sure it’s in there (unclear), it’s between him and (unclear) it shouldn’t be (unclear) he’ll be charged, again, realty—whoever it was this (unclear). I made sure that. . .

So all that is in the papers—in the archives?

Yeah, yeah.

What else did you find?

Archives? Well, anything that had to do with Custodian.

Were there any surprises (unclear)?

No no, because—(unclear) Norm abruptly lowers his voice and his unintelligible. printed (unclear). Now, I don’t know if they charged something but (unclear), and then, like, the group that rent, there’s several of them brought it over and then you can see (unclear) four times, but then maybe their name was (unclear) Nishinige, their daughter tried to find them. (unclear) Norm speaking quietly and is unintelligible. Hey (unclear) out, (unclear). But I’ve seen, (unclear). See that thing is auctioned you know, “that’s my furniture!” says, “you’re furniture hardly (unclear),” it’s an auction there. There was no date (unclear), it was an auction, and then the auctioneer takes so much, (unclear) takes so much, moving takes so much—they get their share, and what’s leftover, you get. And then these aren’t things that you want to sell. Pause, unintelligible whispers in the background.

Now, all this things that happened in the past, but then, what do you think that redress means—meant for you? Because, your parents had established farm and lost, do you think it was any consoling feeling after Tapping in the background. or satisfaction after the—

Well, I wish my father—father and mother would like to seen the encampments but it was easier to see my family. So, like okay, instead of them getting something, but then that there’s—his—what’s Dennis and Leslie? They’re. . .

Some cross talk as Irene helps Norm. Your nephew and niece.

Yeah, my nephew and niece. They were small then, and they thought that life was like that, see. So they didn’t know any better, but then they’re getting this 21,000 (unclear) instead of father getting it, they’re getting it so. . . I guess maybe it’s fair though. . . But, who needs it more? Probably these younger people who (unclear). Now government magic dime (unclear).

Oh I—

No no you don’t have to. . . Norm laughs.

Well, when we talked with your wife, in her case, she has aspiration to go to high school and university Someone unrecognizable interjects but is unintelligible. But in your case (unclear), did you have anything like that? Or are you more or less follow your father’s path of walking and you follow? Norm chuckles and cups clink loudly. I wonder if. . .

Yeah well, ano. Loud noises in background.

And. . .

Yeah well see, you know like, when you go to school, okay, you take either French or Latin. You take French, well that’s ordinary course. If you take Latin, well you could be a doctor, or something else. So I took Latin.

Oh yeah.

But I now—found out that’s a dead language.

(unclear) Everyone laughs. What did you do (unclear)?

Clicking in the recording. Yeah yeah, well then, you don’t need that, but then, at that time you have to take two—one, one either course. But then I was going to—village, while I was going to Japanese school twice a week, five to probably six—no, four to six o’clock, twice a week. So I was able to speak Japanese a little bit, Car horn in the background. little bit, not not—well I get by, but I don’t know, maybe I should have studied more. But, as far as (unclear) concerned, my brother, they got scholarships. But then there’s two of them that got scholarships, you know, like dentistry and Clicking increases in frequency and volume. like the University of Alberta. Recording is a bit distorted. (unclear). But then you go to Alberta, and sure, there was a university, but then what do you do—you already got so many, only a few doctors (unclear) or something like that. But then that, for them it wasn’t that hard. My brother’s finished high school and 3 weeks—3 months, from second (unclear), take course marks, because they (unclear). But, it, one time brought a big (unclear), I got just for him, he skipped it and I (unclear) so he got—I hit him, Norm chuckles and long pause. Recording aide confirms if this is the end.

Yeah, Thank you very much. Recording ends.