Irene Tsuyuki, interviewed by Tatsuo Kage, 14 February 1991

Abstract

Irene Tsuyuki was born in Vancouver in 1925. She begins the interview by mentioning she was adopted by her Great-Aunt and Uncle when her mother passed away. Irene tells of how she was evacuated in October of 1942 from Vancouver and then went to Tashme . She emphasized how her parents would have liked to have stayed in B.C., but because her father was ill and living in Tashme, her family decided to move to Japan in August 1946 instead of to Eastern Canada. Irene talks of how her family was received in Kurihama , and the struggles of potentially being separated from family. Irene then talks about her job working in interpreting while in Japan, and the difficulties and dislikes that came with it while trying to make an income for her family. In the interview, Irene talks about her father’s status as a Canadian after their return to Canada , his repatriation, and accident. Irene concludes by talking about her promises to her father that she would return to Japan, even though she did not want to based on the conditions of the country at the time.

This oral history is from the Nikkei National Museum and Cultural Centre's Kage Collection. Accession No. 2021-7-1-1-3. It describes the experience of exile.

00:00:00.000

Irene Tsuyuki (IT)

Irene talks in the background as Tatsuo sets up the recording device.

Tatsuo Kage (TK)

Yeah, right.

Norm says, You don't have to call it a park, that's a barn, says no yeah, basically it was, it was a barn, and them they converted it into living quarters. But very very, oh I mean, you know, it's, I think I, I commented that day how that year, that winter, it was so cold and because there was no heat in the individual rooms and all we had was, you know, that- the fan, and that was installed in the upper part. Well, even if it moved the heat, I mean the heat rises-

Yeah, right.

And so of course our room was right in the corner, the fan was right there. We never got the heat, because it was blowing towards the other rooms, and of course, above they left some room so that the heat could go in.

Yeah.

But things froze you know, the eggs froze in the room, because mother had in the corner, the kitchen, sort of cupboards, and then she had eggs in there and they froze. It was that cold.

Okay, so, you were, were you actually born in Powell Street or somewhere else in Vancouver ?

No, I was born on Powell Street.

That's right. But where, which, do you remember the number? Where is it about?

It was either 200 block or 300 block, I'm not really sure.

200 must be-

Irene interrupts and shows Tatsuo a piece of paper. This is the information that I got from my stepmother-in-law because she and her husband used to live off Powell Street too. This is going back in the 20's, because I was born in '25. And she, my mother-in-law, she said she was good friends with my parents.

Oh is that right.

And she remembers me, that I used to hang around my mother all the time, always would bring pride, but you see I only spent like 2 and a half, 3 years with my mother, and then she died.

Oh, oh yeah.

So she's the one that told me it was either 200 block or 300 block.

Oh yeah. So after your mom died, what happened to you?

I was adopted then. I was adopted by my adoptive parents.

And you said that your adoptive parents are related to-

Oh yes, he was my-well my adoptive father was my Great-Uncle.

Oh, I see. Tatsuo repeats the word Great-Uncle as he writes it down.

And he's the one that had the shoe business on Powell Street 300 block.

Oh that was the 300 block.

You know where KC Food is?

Oh, I see, okay.

That's where. 338 Powell Street .

So you are actually living there when you are growing up.

Oh yes, and then we had residents in a corner of Cordova and Hawks Avenue . That was 700 block. 791 Cordova.

And because you went to Strathcona right?

Oh yes, yes.

And did you go to Japanese school too?

Yes.

So just like anybody else.

日本語学校 (Japanese language school), yes.

So, I understand you finished at Strathcona , right?

Yes.

So at that time, up to grade 7?

1941.

1941?

Yes. Because we didn't evacuate until October '41.

Oh no, '42.

Just a minute now-

'41 is, '41 was-war started the end of '41, so-

End of forty-oh, pardon me. Then that's '42.

1942, October.

Yes. And because we didn't evacuate until October '42, we were about the last ones to leave.

Yeah, right, right.

00:05:01.000

And that's due to-

Tatsuo interjects. Your mother, or your father was ill.

My father was sick.

Yeah. So, before you went to Tashme , did you stay at home or you went to Hastings Park ?

No, we stayed at home.

Okay. Do you remember around that time that business was as usual? Or your father, or your family had difficulty of running business?

Well, I'm not really too sure on that part, but-

Do think the store was open?

The store was open, and mother closed it-

Oh I see.

Shortly before we left, well she allowed enough time to pay up all the bills and do whatever she had to do, and then also pack. And I'm telling you, after they've been living in that house for so many years, you know, there was only three of us but, there was a lot of things accumulated, and so, because my father had already gone, they sent them in an ambulance to Tashme . Mother and I, we cleaned up the mess, packed, and then-

So you are, you are grown up as the only child in the home.

Yes.

Long pause. So how was your father in Tashme? Was he looked after adequately or?

Well, they had a temporary hospital there, and so for... as soon as they sent him there they put him in there. Now, I can't remember for how long he was in there, and then he came out, and he just sort of took it easy. But, he started off with being diabetic, but he also had heart problems too, and I think that was a complication from the diabetes.

Oh, yeah.

So, he just didn't do any work or anything, he just took it easy.

And it must have been quite hard for your mother, too.

Oh yes, I, well, I think my mother, you know, she started to get sick towards the end of the years of Tashme , and so by the time that we were supposed to be there, while they both weren't in the best of health. Mother was under the weather and my father too, he still wasn't well enough to say, relocate, and start all over again.

So, you said that you aren't really involved in discussing the things with your parents but, do you remember anything that, when government told Japanese people that you have a choice of going back to Japan or to go to East-

Oh, in 1946 when we had to-

Ah, yeah I think that started probably in '44, '45 right?

Oh yes, yes, but in 1946 we...

Moved, right?

They had to get everybody out, and I think basically, even after what had happened to them, they wanted to stay here, but not out East, because I mean, this is where their home was.

Yeah, right.

And so, if permitted, they would've remained if permitted to stay in B.C. , at least in B.C. But, knowing that we had to relocate into East, Eastern Canada , well, my father just couldn't see it because, I mean, if he was younger and stronger, yes, perhaps. But no, he was-but I think what really got him down was when he received a cheque for the money he got from his real estate and anything else that was his assets.

00:10:07.000

(Loud machine starts in the background, drowning out Irene's voice. I can't tell you how much he got, but I know that that really, really hurt him because he said, What an insult and he said after work so hard all these years and he got to that stage, and then for them to turn around, take it, and sell it. So it must've been a very very minimal amount.

Do you think he got the cheque in what year, do you remember?

I thought it might've been either '45 or '46.

Oh so that late?

I think so.

So how was your mom? Mom has a lot to say or more like or more or less follow what your dad say because going back to Japan or not kind of seems that it's a major decision, right?

Well I think they both, I think my mother wanted to stay here too but she also knew that she wasn't well, and father wasn't well, and she, I think she sort of had a feeling that if they ever moved out there, you know, what was there? And at least, you know, if you have some relatives, you sort of have-feel that you're not alone, but they didn't really have no relatives out here, and so anyways, well, my father just said, he says you know If we take a chance not going out there, how do you know that we're gonna have a roof over our heads?

Tatsuo moves his chair back. Yeah, right.

Whereas, if we go to Japan , he's got a house and he could live in that house any time, just let them know, you know he used to have renters Tatsuo hums in agreement. and anytime that he was-he made a trip over there, well he would just let them know that he's coming at such and such a time so-

Oh is that right.

Make sure that they leave. And so, they did that, and so by the time we went there, well they had, the house was empty and we were able to move right in.

Oh is that right.

So when we, we had to get assembled in Kurihama .

Kurihama, is it Kanagawa ?

Yes, yes.

So your father was originally-

Irene interjects her point. That was sort of like a reception centre.

Oh yeah, oh right.

For the repatriates. And from there, they all dispersed and the people who were going to-down to Southern Japan, or say Northern Japan. Well, you know, they had to have contacts for their relatives and that would depend on how soon they could make arrangements. Well, I'd heard afterwards that some of them were there for weeks waiting, whereas like for us, I think we were there for perhaps 4 or 5 days Tatsuo says oh I see because, you know, we're quite close to Odawara and so the relatives made arrangements and we were able to go door shuts in the background quite...

Do you remember which months were you in Japan around October or August in 1946?

Yes, we left here August.

Machine starts in the background August.

August the second.

Tatsuo talks as he writes. Of '46. (Tatsuo's tone of voice gets higher as he asks a question.) How was the passage from Tashme to Vancouver and the trip to Japan ? Was it-no hardship around that time?

Irene thinks aloud. No, not really expect when we were on that ship I guess all our bunch, the Nisei's, well we stayed in a group and as we were sailing underneath the Lion's Gate Bridge, it's been (?) a good cry.

00:15:06.000

Is that right?

Oh yes, because you know, Irene raises her voice to emphasize her point none of us, not one of us we wanted to go, but we went because the parents wanted us to go. So we cried and we cried and so the rest of the trip, well we tried to make the best of it because we tried to stay with the group and, but I think probably there were other families who were in a different situation perhaps, they had a hard time deciding what to do. In (?) there were ones that were split up, part of the time staying in Canada and part of them went to Japan .

In an agreeable tone. Yeah right.

Oh yes I cried, yeah. Heard a few stories about some families being split up and short pause. you know it's different if you're the only one in the family well you just go along with your parents.

Yeah

I imagine if, I don't know, if I were a male, I might have been able to stay behind, but still when you're the only one Tatsuo hums in agreement. it's really hard.

Yeah, besides I'm sure that you, since your parents are sick you took more responsibility Irene interrupts with agreement. right?

Oh yes, yes, yes. And so I, once I got to Japan I thought, well, my father couldn't work loud machine starts in background. we had no income. And so, whatever money that we had from their bank account, insurance and all that pause. it's not going to last forever, and so I decided to work.

Yeah. How was your Japanese then, when you...

Actually, my Japanese was pretty good at that time.

Yeah that's right, eh?

But I think I mentioned before that when you do interpreting Tatsuo hums in agreement. you must know the simple and the difficult language in both sides.

Yeah, right.

And so, especially when you're interpreting for different companies, just that conversational language is in a harsher tone not-

Tatsuo finishes Irene's thought. Not right.

Yeah, and so after I, I worked in a Japanese company for about, I would say a couple of months pause but, as I worked a little bit longer I realized that, I just-I just felt that I wasn't really qualified. Not for that type of work where there were a lot of negotiations being done.

Yeah but at that time what kind of a negotiation-what kind of company did you work for?

Long pause as Irene thinks. I think it, let me see because I didn't work there for too long, I can't even-you know, I guess certain things I...

That more trading or more like-

Irene interjects as she begins to remember. I think more like-not international trading but sort of like a trading company.

But then the-who are the English-speaking person you have to interpret for? Is it Americans or military people, or-?

Probably the Americans, yes. And I don't know whether it has something to do with reparation, but you know that was right after the war Tatsuo agrees. and perhaps there was some-some of that type of-

Ah. And that company was in Odawara, or, where did you work?

Yes, it was in Odawara, and so that was, it was very convenient and also the pay was pretty good too. Tatsuo hums in agreement. I wasn't very happy because all of a sudden I was right there-everyone spoke Japanese there was no English spoken.

00:20:04.000

And, as a, there wasn't really that much-well, when you interpret, I mean, you only do what you're asked to do so I can't have a good conversation.

That's right, yeah.

And so of course, I wasn't very happy and I just felt I had to get out. I thought if I could-even outside of work, if I was able to speak English, because even though I'm bilingual, when it comes to expressing my feelings and that I think I feel more comfortable in English.

Yeah I'm sure you are grown up in that environment right?

And so I find it a little bit difficult to express Tatsuo hums in agreement. my certain feelings. Loud machine starts in the background. So of course I end up doing any (?) work.

Oh yeah.

So, I think with-I wasn't happy and so I wasn't able to express my feelings to anybody because we were all Japanese. Tatsuo hums in agreement. And I had a friend in Yokohama , and she was working for the U.S.A. army and she kept telling me, C'mon up, c'mon up Tatsuo laughs. and I just explained to her that I have to stick up for a little while, and I said until such time that I'm not able to continue, I said I will come up. And so I made the move and I lived in (?) worked at Yokohama and the pay was maybe half of what I was making, but at least I was happier because I was-you know, there was a lot of Japanese people working in the office too along with the army. And also, there were the U.S. civilians, the ones who are not in the army Tatsuo hums in agreement. and so there were a mixture of different people, so I was much happier then.

So how long did you work for the American military?

Right up to the time I came back.

So that...

So that's about Irene hums as she thinks.

You came '51 or '52?

No I came back in '49, December.

Tatsuo repeats what Irene has just said to him. '49, December. So you must have worked about 4 years?

No, I was there for 3 years. So I would say, just under 3 years.

So when you get-just going back a bit, when you get to Odawara, so at least your family had a house but did you have any other relatives there?

Oh, yes, all of my father-my father's relatives were around that area. And they were all farmers.

Oh, farmers.

So we were very very fortunate that we didn't starve.

Oh yeah around that time food shortage was very bad, eh?

Irene groans. Oh, gee Kage-san , even though I didn't go through starvation, I saw it. Tatsuo agrees. And after I came back to Canada, it took me a long time to get over this feeling of like, for instance, we were told over there that because rice was so scarce and people lived on sweet potatoes, and you remember this suiton?

Yeah.

Well, good thing I liked it Tatsuo laughs. I'd live on it. But, you know for people whose main diet was that, well my goodness you know. Tatsuo hums in agreement. It’s a bit, uh, pretty bad. We were very fortunate to have rice because the relatives grew rice and whatever amount we needed, they always brought it. And, but we were forewarned that because people didn't have enough rice, and some of them didn't have any Irene emphasizes any , that when you do have rice , don't ever, ever leave one kernel of rice uneaten Tatsuo agrees. And so we got in the habit of cleaning our plates so clean that you almost didn't have to wash it.

00:25:03.000

So when I came back here, and oh! Everywhere I see people leaving things on the plate and I used to think How could they do that? It's so mottainai, mottainai (wasteful)! Tatsuo laughs. It took me quite a few years to get over that. But of course I can't tell that to everybody else Tatsuo agrees. But I practiced myself. Tatsuo hums in agreement. Because I just couldn't get over those 3 years. Mind you, the third year-well, it got a little bit better, but that first year oh! Irene gasps in disbelief.

Yeah, I still remember that, last year of the war time and past year after the war was the worst time we didn't really have anything.

And do you know I-see because I remembered the trips that we used to make before and the last time before the war that we made the trip was, I was 6. We were there for 2 years because I went to grade 1 and 2 in Japan . Because we went back in-to Japan when I was 6 years old and my father thought Well, 6 years old you've got to start school.

Oh yeah.

So he made me go to 日本語学校 (Japanese language school) in Japan. It was a school, elementary school very close to our house and I went there, grade 1 and grade 2.

Oh is that right? Oh I didn't know that. So you, you are brought up in Powell but you-at the time-

Irene interjects. My father used to-you know he never was a very healthy man, not until he was in his late 60's and early 70's. And he used to go back for maybe a few months Tatsuo hums in agreement. sometimes half a year, and the longest was 2 years, and I think that's the time when he was sick and he decided to go to Japan, and he thought that the change of climate sometimes does a person good and he wanted to rest from his business. So, that's the longest period that we stayed.

Was at that time was your-both parents, were they in Japan or just your father took you.

Oh no both of them-the three of us went.

Oh, I see.

So he had somebody-

Tatsuo finishes Irene's sentence. To look after business.

To manage the store. And so, it was just a visit, but it was a prolonged visit. Tatsuo agrees. So we came back Irene talks as she thinks aloud. let's see now, I was 6 years old unclear as Irene trails off ... through 1931, '31 to '33 yes.

Oh you were in Japan.

Around there, yeah.

Do you remember anything about the Japanese school then?

Oh yeah I-yeah. A bad girl! Irene and Tatsuo both laugh. I used to pick on the other kids and they used to call me アメリカ人 (American). And oh my father used to have to go to school quite a few times you know? Irene laughs.

Oh I see.

But, I guess I must have done quite well, because I remember bringing home, you know we used to do the oshuji (calligraphy).

Yeah.

And I used to get really good marks, I used to enjoy doing that. And so when I came back, now I was 8 years old, and I studied grade 1 in English school because I couldn't speak Irene enunciates each following words. a word of English.

Is that right eh?

And my father, during our trip over, he helped me with the alphabets and the counting, counting 1 to 100.

Oh, I see. Oh that's why you are, when you finish the Strathcona , you are older than other kids eh?

Oh yes, oh yes. But, 日本語学校 (Japanese languagee school), I got into grade 3.

Oh yeah, right.

You see, if I was able to speak English, I could've got into grade 3 in English school. Because I could not speak any English. I, you know, they put me into grade 1. But I think in grade 2, I may have skipped because my math was so advanced

00:30:08.000

That by that time, my English was quite a bit better. Pause. And then, I got quite ill when I was about 12 and I missed a whole year of school, I missed both schools, so that set me back 3 years in English school. So my friends all were younger than myself.

So while you were working in Japan, you are already young adult. Did you-was it difficult to find the friends of your peer group? Japanese, same age group?

No actually, my friends after I worked for the (?), there were quite a few, the, there was a girl from-she was born in England, London , England , and she and her family had visited Japan just prior to the war...

00:31:25.000

Yeah I had 2-3 American-Japanese friends, also in the same predicament, they got stranded. And then there were a couple of Canadian niseis too.

Oh yeah.

And there were-and then I also had Japanese-German friend.

In a surprised tone. Ooh.

But, like she was born in Japan .

But half German.

Her mother was German, her father Japanese. And so, no, I had really nice friends and they were-they all had different circumstances, and very interesting.

But not pure Japanese, most of them are they? Are Japanese brought up in Japan?

Well I have a few, but most of them, they were English speaking. But like the ones that worked in the office, there were a couple of Japanese girls that worked there, I mean they were born there and we got along very well Tatsuo hums in agreement. oh yeah. And no problems that way, but no, I was a lot happier after I started working in Yokohama , and then I used to go home during the weekend, unclear bike rides.

So your father became much better then?

Yes, after he went to Japan and he had a small vegetable garden in the back, you know, his property was fairly big, so he had a very very nice garden in the back Irene speaks with emphasis he grew everything, he even grew peanuts! And melons, and all the vegetables, and I think because he was doing that everyday, he gradually got stronger. And actually, he was very very healthy.

Is that so?

So, it's really ironical that it wasn't sickness that killed him, it was the accident that he had.

Oh is that right?

So, you know, it was such a surprise for me.

When did your father have accident?

Well, my mother-she passed away in June, oh gosh what year was that...

Tatsuo jogs Irene's memory After you came back here.

Oh yes, oh yes. Because I had my four children, and then shortly after that he passed away. Within 3 months of each other.

Oh I see.

My mother went first, and my father had an accident and then he passed away in September.

So that-

Irene interrupts But actually, after my mother passed away, I would've been able to get him out here, because I wrote to Odawara, I wrote quite a few times, and finally they considered it as a compassionate case Tatsuo hums in agreement and he would've been permitted to re-enter Canada . Because in his case, he relinquished his citizenship.

Ah yeah.

Yeah he was a naturalized Canadian but he lost that, so he was considered a national.

Oh yeah. When was it relinquished? When he moved back to Japan?

Yes when he repatriated.

So, '46 then?

Irene quietly yeah.

So when you-you mentioned that because of the unclear parents were sponsoring you that you are able to come back. Around that time, did you-you mentioned about food starvation quite different from Japan, but do you remember any other differences between Canada and Japan which you felt like, people call it culture-shock kind of things but did you?

Well, what really struck me most was the post-war year. I just couldn't (pause) because I still remembered the peaceful environment in Japan when I was there for a couple of years.

00:36:30.000

Yeah, right.

And I remember certain things that stood in my mind, and people were very nice and everything was so peaceful and this time, I looked at all these faces of the Japanese people and it-I-I really felt the difference you know that-

People were really...

People were really sad and they were so, oh they must've been Irene struggles to find words and pauses I-I'm sure that a lot of these people must've been well off before the war, and then because of the war they have become poppers. And some of them they might've been (Irene drops her voice down to a whisper) especially in Yokohama Station there, oh I saw these people they didn't have clothes on, they just had torn up sacks, draped over their bodies and you could hardly see their skin because they were so dirty. Tatsuo hums in agreement. And they were huddled in this little, kind of a little boulevard in front of Yokohama Station. And there would be I think about a dozen or ten people, and they just, the expression on their faces, and some of them would be picking lice out of their hair Tatsuo hums in a sympathetic tone and I oh. I think that really bothered me to see the people all of a sudden, from the above average standard of living, to be dumped right down to the lowest level. And every time I went by there, this is what I saw, and all these people on the trains, and their mostly women and they would have great big sacks full of sweet potatoes and whatever else and oh, they must've been so heavy, and so of course their bodies would half bent and they're probably going to the country to buy these unclear and a lot of them black market.

Do you think they were mourners mostly or they are more for the family?

No no I think these were for the family, because these were mothers, grandmothers, and oh, that really, even though I myself didn't go through starvation or any physical discomfort, I yeah. It really bothered me to see that. And the Japanese people have always been proud...

Tatsuo adds to Irene's thoughts Clean.

Yes. And I, oh gosh, how they'd feel. Tatsuo hums in agreement.

So did you feel at the same time you were fortunate that you are not in that situation?

Well yes. I think there was a feeling too that coming here that people in Japan are having quite a time.

Yeah.

And here, so many of us had repatriated to Japan , and I'm sure there's some people must of felt, Why did they leave their country and come over here? And they have problems enough without us coming Tatsuo agrees and I'm sure that many many of them felt that way, but mind you our relatives, well I think they understood because I'm sure my father explained to them what had happened, that we had no choice at least for us anyways, I don't know about the others, but for us, we didn't have any choice. Pause. And even if they did felt pause

00:41:29.000

negative feeling, they wouldn't say so, I'll come outright and say it. But I think the farmers were not really too bad, you know.

Yeah, right.

Because at least they had food, and they were out in the country so many of them escaped from the bombings that were happening.

Yeah I remember that we used to go to the... Tatsuo starts his sentence again We are out of Tokyo , not too far, maybe a few hours away. Okutama where it's I think more like North West Tachikawa ?

Oh Tachikawa I've heard of yes!

So farther back in the mountain there is, tamariba is going up so around there, there's a nice mountainous place but it's not really farming area, but there's forest and small businesses and so on. I think nowadays it's sightseeing, hiking area. And we used to come near Tachikawa, that is more flat you know. Land is flat so there are farmers. And we used to go. Sometimes took our kimonos...

Ah. In exchange for food.

For food yeah. So potatoes and...

Oh so you did that too?

Yeah, I think I didn't go too many times but usually my father was working, so what happened is that my father stayed home and on weekends, my mother took myself and my older sister to carry these things. And it's near Tachikawa so, huge American trucks are running around, we are quite scared Tatsuo starts to giggle as he talks because we didn't see that big truck and truck guys driving.

It must have seemed like monsters to you both Irene and Tatsuo laugh .

Tatsuo laughing Right, so...

How old were you then? You must've been-

I was, I finished grade 4-I was grade 4 when the war ended. So I think in grade 4 and grade 5 we lived in that area.

In an astonished tone Wow, oh I see.

And by then '46, my father managed to rent a house in Tokyo for his business, so we started living in Tokyo.

So, actually, where you lived, you were free of bombing and all that then.

Well, you see, yeah-yes in a way because what happened was that we lived in Suginami area. Which Suginami is between Shinjuku and Tachikawa. So that's a residential area. And I don't think that area was bombed hardly. But last 2 years of war, most Tokyo children were sent in the countryside. And of course that's a government policy so we are encouraged to do. Only some shopkeepers and so on that they kept the kids at home, but my school, I don't know how many people went. Probably half of the kids went to Tohoku, Miyagi-ken . And it's a farming area at that day would probably produce rice quite well, even though it's very cold. So, food situation was not too bad there, until the last year. Last year was (?), and I think there were about 150 children from same school (?). And while we were there for two years, nobody-no kids had accident or got sick and died, but the interesting thing was that my father was working fairly close area, Akita-ken . So, right after the war, he came back to Tokyo, and he was working in the military there because Akita has an oil well and at that time there was no resources, you see? Like fuel was absolutely no. So military has desperately digging new wells.

00:46:27.000

I don't think it was successful. So he was working there. So right after the war, he came with some soldiers and two trucks, two-three trucks coming back to Tokyo. And he picked me up on the way, about a week after the war ended.

In a surprised tone Oh!

So I, well I thought I'd (?) and then, after a couple of weeks, there was cholera or something in that, because around there, several kids died.

Oh really?

Yeah. And I think in-my mother used to tell me that I was quite starved, I'd lost weight. So I think probably main reason was not hygiene but more like malnutrition. Irene hums in agreement Oh, I was hungry then, all the time hungry, but you see kids-

Wow. You were getting to that age where need a lot of food!

Yeah, so I was always hungry, but I didn't feel that I was unusually starved. Irene hums in agreement. If you're around 10 or so, you don't really know what other people are thinking same thing right?

That's right, yeah.

That was situation. Then we went to Obama... family was outside Tokyo where (?). But food wasn't enough there either because it wasn’t real farming area. And, this is an American surplus food was distributed, but best thing I can remember was sardines in tomato sauce Irene and Tatsuo chuckle Well that's okay.

Well, I guess when you don't have anything else, it's, you know, life saving!

Tatsuo chuckles Yeah, right. So, pause

So you been through the mill too.

Yeah, and beside my father-since my father was in the military, I think about 2 years or so was very hard for him.

In a sympathetic tone. Oh.

Because, well he didn't have a job right?

Oh I see. This is like after the war.

Yeah.

So then you got your education in Tokyo then.

Yeah. So, my father managed to send me to secondary school, so that was-it's kind of a luxury at the time too, so it's very good.

And so you took English too at the same time, or the English came later?

Well, English was taught from secondary school in Japan, but first-before I get into university, English wasn't my favourite subject. Irene chuckles And also I wasn't very good in the language at that time, so I had a hard time to pass entrance exam. I worked really hard when I was grade 12. But, my father was unusually conversant in English at that time.

Oh is that right?

Yeah. He, I think he was in the military but he has some contact with English people military at the (?) when he was very young, so he used to speak English when he was young, so even after the war he met some American soldiers, actually officers, and they used to come around the shack to visit because he is a family man, a very serious type of person so he wasn't fooling around, but I think he missed his family I guess.

Ah, I see.

So he came around. And he bring some extra food and so on. And actually, that guy kept in contact.

00:51:26.000

My father died, but even... strange thing was that last year, he popped up to Vancouver .

Irene is disbelief Oh, really?!

Yeah! Because he visited Japan and met my mother and sisters because he remembered. My sister's already 15 or so. So he knew that I am in Vancouver, so I think he-oh no he has a (?) so he has several children and one of his grown up children is working in Alaska . So his home is , but he drove all the way to go to Alaska, and way back, he phoned from Surrey or something at the motel, so...

Is that right?! So you had a reunion then?

Yes.

Oh, isn't that nice. So how many years since?

Well, you see my family met them but I didn't see him since that time, so that means it was around 1946.

Oh my goodness. Gee-well that was nice then.

Oh yeah.

Gosh.

I think he became school teacher in (?).

Oh yeah. So he was an officer in the army was he? Oh yeah. Well, maybe you'll have to go and visit him in Michigan then.

Both laughing Oh yeah he was saying that it's quite close to ski resort so...

Oh yeah.

I'm sure it's countryside. Pause Okay, going back to your experience, time when you came back to Canada, wasn't it hard decision to come back to Canada? Because your parents are in Japan right?

Well, I guess, yes in a way it was hard for me to leave them, but on the other hand, because I was not really happy over there, the three years that I was there.

In what way are you not happy? Do you think?

Well, I guess it's hard to, you know if you have been born and raised in this country, and more or less in this Western environment, then suddenly you go to Japan, and even though you can speak the language and you're aware of some of the culture, I found it rather difficult to really assimilate. Tatsuo hums in agreement Perhaps on the surface but not to get right into it.

Do you have anything concrete that certain things like behaviour, or the way people think, or the way you are treated, do you have anything that you didn't like in Japan?

During my stay over there?

Yeah. So that made you decide to come back?

Well, I think it was more on the part that when we got to Japan in 1946, in the first place, I really didn't want to go.

Oh yeah, oh that's right yeah.

And my parents knew that. But I knew also that I didn't have any other choice. Unless, I decided to completely go on my own which they wouldn't allow me to, not at that age. Well, I guess I was old enough, if it was now, you know, is adult age. See I was 19 when we left, but in those days, 18-19 is still like 13-14 right now.

00:56:28.000

Right.

And so, if I decided I wanted to stay here, I know that I would be such a worry for my parents. So, I just told my father that yes, I will go, but the first chance that I have, I will come back. And he agreed to that. And especially when we got there, and of course when we got there well, I guess they had no idea that conditions were such, and they were very very taken aback. And, so of course I'm sure they must have had the same feeling as I did, even though the Canadian government had betrayed them. They still, because they had spent more years in Canada than they did in Japan, and actually from hard work and perseverance, they had got to where they were. So, this is where they decided to make their home. And I guess they must have had a very mixed up feelings deep inside, they wanted to be Canadian. And yet, they were very bitter about the internment. But of course they were not the only ones. So, anyways, when we went to Japan and they saw how conditions were, well they knew right there and then that in the future, time will come when they are permitted to re-enter Canada, and they would have. And if they had felt that way, they must've understood how I felt, and so my father said that the first chance that you get, you can go back.

So that was the-

I had that in mind and that's what I strive for. But, while I was there, I wanted to support my parents because they had no income. And even though, I mean I had not finished high school, and I had taken a couple of business courses, short hand and typing. But, that was just an optional course and so of course I got through all right but I had no experience. So, if I were to go apply for job, I couldn't say I could take a secretariat job, I mean, I would be lying to myself. I felt that my qualification wasn't enough. So, then typing? Yes, I was pretty good at that. But shorthand? No, because I had no experience. If I had experience, yes, I would've taken it. So, I had to just take sort of a clerk type of work and whatever money that I made I wanted to support them. So three years that I worked-

But were you able to manage sending money away and also leaving you separated from home? Was it okay?

Well, yes I-because the only-the big expense that I had was the rent for my dormitory, which was not really too high. And because we worked for the army, and we were considered foreign nationals, we were not Japanese, we were not Americans, but foreign nationals. And we were given a special card and so we were permitted to eat in the mess hall. So, as far as food was concerned, I didn't have any expense in that field. Just the rent and the incidentals. So what I did was, I got so much now I put aside the rent, and then I just put aside a minimum incidental expense.

01:01:24.000

And all the rest, I took it to my father. And my father-and I guess, you know it wasn't very much and yet, he, oh, he just took that envelope and he said Oh I look forward to this money so much, Tatsuo giggles and I guess it's because it was the money I earned and so that's my only time that I was able to sort of repay my parents for bringing me up, and I wanted to do it more. Perhaps if I had stayed in Japan longer, yes, things would've been different but no my father said You go to the embassy and find out. And so I think I used to go to the embassy every so often to see if the regulations had changed, because they had just kept saying No, no. And then, you see, after April '49, they said that if you can find a sponsor, you will be permitted to go back.

Yeah, but still I think you are very fortunate probably to come back in 1949-

Oh I am, I am, and it's- recording ends abruptly.

01:02:52.000

So how was you're- Norm ’s parents are not related to you right?

No, but they're also from-they were also from Kanagawa . And very very close with village-all those villages that they're situated-one to the next.

Yeah.

And so, it's like a lot of them are walking distance, and so they're quite close, and my father and my father-in-law, they came out to Canada about the same time.

Oh I see.

And so they pioneered together.

Oh I see, so they knew each other.

Oh from-

From back in the day.

Oh yes. I think my father-in-law came out 1907. And my father, I think, came out around that time, I'm not exactly sure.

And Norm 's family is originally from Mission or something, right?

No, Haney .

Haney. Okay.

Yes.

And when they-when you came back there was Norm's family who are in Surrey , or?

No in Lillooet .

Oh yeah, right right. And did Lillooet people-people in Lillooet, they moved out from Tashme , like Nihei said he...

He moved from Tashme to Lillooet, yes.

So Norm's parents are also...?

Norm's parents they moved from Haney to Lillooet.

Yeah, right.

Self supporting.

Oh so okay-

The reason why they were self supporting is they wanted the families to be together.

Yeah. Right. Oh okay.

And they have to have-I think they have to have 1800.

Oh. Cash.

Yup.

Oh is that right? Oh I see. That money is to support yourself, or to buy-

Yeah well, you see because it says-self supporting, well I guess the government have to-they wanted to make sure that they had-

Some.

That money, and then people who couldn't afford it, well they knew they wouldn't be able to support themselves. So they did everything on their own. Built the shacks, built this and that. Mind you, they had no water, they had no power at first, oil was being rough going there too. And like, they built the houses in East Lillooet, and then you cross the Fraser River and then it's Lillooet . Now, they went through a lot of racial prejudice. Oh yeah.

And what was-what kind of farming there?

Well it was field farming, like they grew tomatoes, yeah acres and acres of tomatoes. Also, different fruits-melon. And...

I thought the land around there is very dry.

Well yeah dry but as long as you irrigate. Just perfect-oh the tomatoes that you get from there. Irene exhales. You couldn't eat anything else.

Is that right?

Yeah. And even the melon, the watermelon, cantaloupes, and-

Is that right.

Yeah. Really sweet.

Do you think they are doing that kind of farming even now? Or not necessarily Japanese.

No, no. Where they're-see they bought, I think they bought a 400 acre there. But you know, when it's out there when you say 400, it seems a lot but, yeah. It's so wide open that it doesn't seem like so much. But, what they have out there now is close to Lillooet, close to East Lillooet there, there's a Ginseng farm they run.

Is that right?

01:07:51.000

Ginseng is supposed to be very hard to grow.

Apparently, the climate there is very similar to-

Tatsuo finishes Irene's sentence. North Korea or something.

Yeah. And that's why you should see it. We should take a drive up there.

And that, Koreans are doing that?

Pause Well, I really don't know because they have an office in White Rock , and there's a sign there, and we were driving by there and Norm took a video of it, they have a black screen on top, and at that time, I don't know if they had already harvested or what, but it's pretty empty. And they had a sign up saying if you walk away (?) to contact this phone number, at such-and-such a place and it was in White Rock.

Oh that's right. (?) growing Ginseng.

Oh yeah. And the first time we saw it, that was how many years ago. 3 or 4 years ago. And then last year we went back to-we went to Adam's River but on the way we drove in. He wants to drop in every so often because he spent 9 years there and every time we drive by there-the first couple times we drove through there was some remnants of the East Lillooet settlement, and he say, That's where the apricot tree was, and that's where our root cellar was, do you see that thing there? That was a root cellar there. Or, That was our house there. But now there's kind of like a housing project, and so there's a few houses being built and there's no sign of it now.

When you came back to Lillooet , what did you do? Are you helping them?

Oh yes because I-like Norm's sister, she was married and she had 3 kids. And actually, soon after I got here, the third one was born, so I looked after the baby and I helped around the house, and so that was, okay-December, now we're talking about 1950, and in the fall of 1950, we got married.

Oh, very quickly.

Irene laughs Actually, we knew each other before, but the fact is-well, I mean I wasn't ready yet, I guess, and I knew who he was I knew what he looked like, and because I used to associate with his sister. She's my good friend. and so this was the first time we actually got to know each other.

Oh yeah.

And so, well, we just got engaged in July and then we got married in October and so-after all, I was what 23, 24-going on 24, I wasn't really that young, you know. And Norm was a couple years older than I was, so we got married in October, and then we moved herein '51, March.

Oh I see, so you married 1950 and... Tatsuo takes notes. Oh so you lived here 40 years?

Oh yeah it's 40 years this year.

In the same location here?

Yeah. It's hard to believe.

Yeah.

And we've been in this house 30 years this year.

Yeah 30 years, still in very good shape.

Oh, I don't think so, it needs a lot of retouching, renovation. We have to renovate our sundeck and I have to put new floor on in the kitchen and utility room and I want to paint inside and outside.

Tatsuo chuckles Well.

But, on the whole, it's a fairly well-built house.

01:12:52.000

We had these Hungarian carpenters build the house, and it's been good. We haven't had too much problems.

Besides, nicely built, spacious in here.

Well Norm had to have all these windows because he's always worked in the greenhouse, and he just didn't like a lot of walls he wants a lot of windows, I said yeah that's okay with you, but I said who's the one that's going to clean the windows?

Ah, I see. Well, yeah, I wonder what-it's interesting that you got married in the next year, very quickly.

Oh yes.

So, do you think pause let's see, how should I put it. I met somebody who-also, who went back and came back. So in a way it's very similar situation. But she has a (?) in a way...

To educate herself?

No, no what happened is that-she had a boyfriend in Japan.

Oh oh I see.

But it-I think he had been some American stationed... Hi, Norm? Hi! Irene's husband enters the room .

Are you finished work?

Are you working?

Irene laughs He's working today!

Oh, I see.

No no not work, well, I don't know, I guess you would call it work. Irene laughs.

Oh, so I asked Irene old stories, 40, 50 years, while she was still single. Tatsuo and Irene laugh.

Kage-san want’s to know, gee, didn't take very long for me to get married since I come back in '49 and I-

Norm Tsuyuki (NT)

Well you were right then. Tatsuo and Irene laugh. それまでまだ...(Until then...)

(?)

(?) Tatsuo and Irene continue laughing

Yeah I think-

No, I think probably age has something to do with it too.

That's right.

Perhaps if I were, say 18, 19, or even early twenties, I may have wanted to re-educate myself because I never finished high school, just went up to 11. But well, 23 going on 24-those days, I would say-

Do you think that was-nowadays, yeah like I have 3 daughters and two aren't married and they don't show any sign of getting married.

Oh hey, nowadays? Gee.

Nowadays, yeah. But do you think at that time, of course in Japan they have a lot of pressure for the girls, but-

Irene interrupts Tatsuo Oh, listen. When I went over there, I was 19, okay? And then 20, 21, 22.

Did you get any-

Yup, okay. Those-as soon as I got there, shortly after, I went to visit my grandparents and they kind of looked me over, and they asked me how old I was so I told them, wow whatever, I think I was either 20 or 21. 「おー、もうそろそろ結婚」(Oh, it’s almost time you get married.) Oh no, no. 「もうそろそろ婿さんを探さなきゃだめだね」(You need start looking for a husband.) And so, that really rubbed me the wrong way, because I had no intention-I knew if you were the only daughter-only child and only daughter, that you have to have a mukosan (husband).

Oh yeah.

And so I-gee I must have been quite outspoken because after I thought gee, I never used to be like that. But I told them that, I said, Oh, I have no intention of having a mukosan, I said I can't see my husband taking after my name, I said that's not right! I said we don't do that in Canada . After that, nobody mentioned anything about marriage to me. Until then, each one kind of hint around that oh, it's time you got married. That maybe we should find you a mukosan.

01:17:52.000

So you're very strong minded then.

Irene laughs Oh maybe, yeah. I never was outspoken before that but perhaps when I went to Japan and I was getting a little older, I-maybe I got that way.

But didn't you meet any young Japanese guys? Which can be very nice guys and-

Well, maybe I wasn't ready.

Oh is that right?

Because not until-you see, if anybody mentioned marriage to me at the time, it would just kind of turn me off. Getting married-no. But you see when I came back here, well, I was 23. And, well, I guess maybe I didn't have all that negative feeling about it.

Yeah interesting because-

When I got to know him more, well then we must have just hit. And he was what twenty-let's see. 25, yeah, he was 25. I was 23.

Yeah because interesting because only that-you are already 22 or so when you left Japan right? Until then you didn't have any inclination right?

Nope, no I had none at all.

So, I don't know Norm at the time if he was very very attractive or...

Oh yeah he was! Tatsuo laughs I should show you our wedding picture Irene laughs You wouldn't recognize them maybe because he was thin, you know. He was almost like your stature.

Oh Both Irene and Tatsuo laugh I see.

But I guess I don't regret getting married at that time because if I had waited any longer I probably would have been closer to 30! Oh yeah, our daughter-our youngest daughter, she's what-27 she'll be 28 this year. And she's already told us, she said, I don't have intention of getting married before I'm 30. It's after that. So, you know, no use worrying about it.

Well all your kids are (?)?

Yeah, well-no Wendy was early, she was twenty...well, we've had one that she got married at 19 and of course it went sour a few years later. But our oldest, she didn't get married until she was quite late.

How about-when did you get the first child?

'51.

Ah okay so very soon. So there-oh so now '51, 40?

Oh yeah oldest one, she's going to be 40 this year. Irene chuckles

Oh wow.

Yeah. It's hard to believe. No wonder we're getting on.

Well you are still-looks quite good shape.

Well I think it's all how you feel. If you feel old, I guess you will be old.

So do you think-thinking back from now, 40 years back, do you think you made a good decision coming back here?

I think so. I think so.

So you can't imagine then how it could happen-could have been if you continued to live in Japan? Probably settle down there and getting married (?).

Well I probably would have continued to support my parents, and pause I don't know what-how my marriage would have worked out. If I was so outspoken I don't know if I Irene chuckles

Because you see, two years ago I visited Japan and met a lot of deportees. And lot of them are your age and Nisei. And those who stayed there, kept on staying, got married to Japanese because you hardly see anybody else.

That's right. And were they happy?

Well, it's hard to say.

01:22:52.000

Or were they just sort of accepted it.

Yeah I'm sure they accepted it. But they talk about their culture, more Canadian. But why would Japanese keep kids brought up in a Japanese way, and I think most of them spoke Japanese at home. And so they become Japanese, still, they are Canadians.

Yes.

So in that way, you are different, even though that you stayed in Japan for how many years now.

3 years. Well you mean...

'46 to-

'49.

Oh only 3 years? Oh yeah then it is a very short episode I guess.

Well, I have one of my friends, she remained in Japan, and married a Japanese fella. But, they came back or actually-it's funny because they came for a visit, and like her mother is buried in Vancouver somewhere. And so, as an ohakamairi (visit to the graves) and also visit, they came out when was that? They came out in the '70s? Must have been in the '70s. And so when they came out, we drove them around a bit and we took them out to where Irene turns to Norm Seymour Mountain ?

Seymour Mountain.

Seymour Mountain, and it was beautiful that day. Her husband fell in love with Vancouver, and he said to me right there, he said, You know, I'd like to come and live here. But his wife, even though she was born here, raised here, she had lived in Japan for quite a few years after the war. She didn't want to come back.

In a surprised tone Oh.

Isn't that funny? Yet, I guess they must have compromised because he said that he wanted to come here. Live here. And that was it, I guess there's no other choice. So, a couple years later, they came over. And so they live out in Ontario . (?).

Did they have children then?

I-let's see now. I don't know whether they had adopted one, and whether that-whether she-I think it was a girl, she's still in Japan.

Oh I see.

I think. I'm not too sure. But anyways her brother, her brother had come back quite a few years before and he was living in Toronto . And so, perhaps that was the reason for them to want to move.

Because in our case, (?) was up to bringing up children where, that's very big consideration because in Japan it's, as you know, especially for girls, it's very hard to get good education and, of course (?). So we can see a lot of problems in the future, still, when we moved into there, still young, the oldest one was only 12 so that wasn't-we didn't really have a problem there. But we sort of eventually may have some problems, which we kept on (?). So...

Maybe you made a wise choice.

Well, it's hard to say, but probably.

How did (?) feel about it?

Oh she doesn't like going back to Japan.

She's-

Yeah Canada is much better.

Oh yeah.

Because after all, the culture is so different even though she speaks (?) the language, and when she was young, she can't take a lot of pressure (?).

Oh yes.

Stress is from the culture but getting older I think it's much harder.

01:27:52.000

Well she's still young yet. Both Irene and Tatsuo laugh. Well you've got 3 or 4?

Four, four.

One boy? And three girls? Tatsuo hums in agreement Oh gee.

あの、太鼓しとんのは一番上の、eldest? (Is your eldest child the one that does taiko?)

太鼓してるのは三番目です。(It’ll be my third child that does taiko.)

So where does your son come in?

Son is-my son is the last one.

Oh! He's the-oh!

Yeah last one.

So you had three girls and then the-

Boy.

Son, eh? Oh. That's good. Pause So how old are your older girls?

Let's see now, one in '61, so 30 now.

Oh! Is that right?

Yeah they are-we got married quite young, I was only 25 or so.

Oh yeah.

Second one is just one year apart, so almost 30. And Irene (?) may be around 26 now.

Oh so they're-three of them are good marriageable age then.

Yeah, and only the oldest one got married, very young, I think she was around 20 she got married. Against parent's wish Norm chuckles she actually run away from home because her husband is Japanese living in the States .

Oh for Heaven's sakes.

So, we thought that-to begin with the oldest one was very very smart so we thought that she should continue studying.

She got kind of side-tracked. Irene laughs.

Yeah.

So she's married then.

Yeah, so she married without parent's consent.

And so they're still together?

Yeah.

Oh wow that's alright.

Yeah and I think three kids now.

Ooh. So are they living down across the line then?

Yeah, in Los Angeles .

Oh! You get to see then very often?

They come around every year, so.

Oh that's nice.

But three kids, there's always three kids coming and staying about 2 to 3 weeks it's really (?) Tatsuo and Irene laugh. And of course my daughter has a lot of friends here, so (?)-

Irene interjects Oh! Grandpa Grandpa could look after them hey?

Yeah.

Oh gee. Pause Gosh, you're not old enough to be a Grandfather.

Yeah, well I think-when the first child came, I just hated to be called Grandpa.

You must have been still in your forties?

Oh no, the oldest one is about 6-yeah I was, yeah, I think about age 47.

Yeah that's young Irene laughs .

And I still don’t like to be Grandpa. Irene laughs. But you are a Grandparent right?

Oh yeah. 7 times.

Oh, already?

Gee whiz, you know. He's 67 and I'm 65 so, well, I guess we're old enough. I didn't realize you had 4 you know. So how old is your son then?

Let's see, about-yeah he became 20 this year I guess, or last year.

So is he going to university?

Yeah he's going to UVic now.

Oh yeah. Pause Oh well, pretty soon oh well it's just the two of you at home.

Yeah, now yes.

So the other two girls there are on their own?

Yeah, because older one is now living in Gibsons.

Ooh.

Teaching there.

Oh, I see.

And the one doing (?) is in Vancouver living there. Yeah she's living like a hippie, so it's communal house Irene laughs lot of people living together in Kitsilano(?).

Oh yeah. That's alright.

01:32:52.000

But she comes around quite often.

That's a lot cheaper doing it that way. Pause You must really enjoy the drums eh?

I think though, it's really hard to leave because three of them became professionals, professional means they-only means they don't have any other job, right? So they have to (?) so I think it's still pretty hard even though they have-

What do you mean three of them, like three of yours? Or...

No no no three-

Oh in the group.

Yeah, one is actually, John is Greenaway’s son, right. And there’s Sanada and Komori .

Which? Leslie Komori or?

Leslie yeah.

Oh, Leslie! Leslie out here now? She was out in Toronto.

Yeah Lucy, sister is still in Toronto I guess.

Yup yeah I know her.

But Leslie came.

Oh, she's back here then?

Yeah so she joined and formed a group with Irene and John Greenaway.

Yeah.

Okay there's two taikos now in Vancouver isn't there. Katari Taiko...

Katari Taiko is original group, it's formed almost 10 years ago, right?

In unison with Norm. Yeah. Recording cuts out.

01:34:29.000

They formed smaller group to be professional.

And that's called?

Uzume Taiko.

Uzume. Oh I see, and they're professionals then?

Yes, they call themselves professional, but that only means that they don't have other job.

Oh is that right? But then they'll have go on these tours, don't they?

Yeah.

I think this weekend they are going to-today's Thursday, no maybe not weekend but Irene said they are going to White Horse . They have some kind of...

Oh yeah. Also like they travel all over the place.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well I think the taiko entertainment is good, especially I think the hakujins really like that. Just like this one group coming from Japan, what is it?

Kodo.

Kodo. Oh I see.

That it also very-should also be good one.

Is that right? It's worth seeing?

Oh yeah.

It's only one day, you know. Or one week maybe. They're having it at QE (Queen Elizabeth Theatre), so it must be-I was thinking gee, I'd like to go but, I have a symphony devoted to the next day, and it seems like Irene laughs it's too many things that I'm going, but...

Yeah but Kodo is-somehow they come to the States more often, almost every year, but Canada it's first time, and you-I'm sure you'd enjoy it.

Is that right?

Yeah.

何処から？ (Where are they from?) Which province?

Okay that group started from Sado, Sado Island? But you see, at that time they called Ondeko. Oni-daiko.

In unison with Norm. Oh yeah yeah.

And then, I think they are-that group split up, and Kodo... I think Ondeko want to keep more traditional way. But Kodo was trying more modern, like performing together with orchestra, going around to Europe, it's North American (?) so. But some members-old members in Kodo and Ondeko came around almost 10 years ago here. Yeah, so we are right-

So this Kodo, so they have other instruments besides the taiko?

I think they are probably shamisen, they have. Shamisen and Fue. But not Western-

Oh, no no no. Yeah I was quite surprised. I went to ticket office and I saw this, the brochure. And I haven't heard about that group, and I just wondered how popular they were.

Oh yeah, it's-even in Japan it's-

Is that right?

I think when I went to Japan last year, I saw several CDs already. Quite well known.

Are you going to go?

Well probably I get ticket anyway.

I guess all the taiko group, they'll be going.

Yeah Irene laughs I think Tonari Gumi is promoting it for fundraising purposes.

Oh is that right? Oh yeah.

Well anyway I think I had-probably I had most of your experience.

Oh good. Are we finished? We'll have some tea.

Oh that's great.

You got time for that?

Sure. Recording cuts out.

01:38:47.000

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Title

Irene Tsuyuki, interviewed by Tatsuo Kage, 14 February 1991

Abstract

This oral history is from the Nikkei National Museum and Cultural Centre's Kage Collection. Accession No. 2021-7-1-1-3. It describes the experience of exile.

Credits

Interviewer: Tatsuo Kage

Interviewee: Irene Tsuyuki

Interviewee: Norm Tsuyuki

Transcriber: Emma Sjerven

Audio Checker: Sakura Taji

XML Encoder: Sakura Taji

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Setting: Canada

Terminology

Readers of these historical materials will encounter derogatory references to Japanese Canadians and euphemisms used to obscure the intent and impacts of the internment and dispossession. While these are important realities of the history, the Landscapes of Injustice Research Collective urges users to carefully consider their own terminological choices in writing and speaking about this topic today as we confront past injustice. See our statement on terminology, and related sources here.