Irene Tsuyuki, interviewed by Tastuo Kage, Unidentified Interviewer and Unidentified Voice, 01 January 1991

Recording starts and people speak unintelligibly in the background. Well there's going to be lots of reunions in the next year.

Actually, in October in Vancouver , there will be a big conference.

(?) seniors?

Yeah, seniors but we want to get younger people involved and lot of reunions. Someone clears their throat in the background and Tatsuo laughs. Long pause as recording device gets set up.

There. Now I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself and your birthdate, place of birth, and any account of childhood that you care to tell to us.

I'm Irene Testuko Tsuyuki. I was born as Kato, and I was born in Vancouver on Powell Street -now I don't know which block it was, but-let's see. December the 3rd, 1925. And I attended Strathcona Elementary School . So, I graduated in 1942, the year of the evacuation. Fortunately I was able to finish off the term because we weren't evacuated until October, end of October, due to my father's business at that time. And pause what else?

Do you remember anything in particular about Strathcona school at that time? Your graduation? I remember the graduation ceremony (?)?

Yes yes, it was very nice. I have very good recollection of our Principal Mr. Patterson at that time. He was a very very compassionate person, and he really felt for us Japanese students, and I think I was one of the very few who were able to remain and finish off term. But, actually, the teachers were very, very nice. I didn't have any unpleasant memories at that time.

Remember the school and its motto, school (?).

(?). School with many nationalities, but one flag. Yes, we had a number of different nationalities there, I think they all come from (?).

And the vast majority was...

Oh yes, Orientals. Japanese and Chinese.

Do you remember the number of schoolchildren at that time? (?).

I think so (?) that but-

And more than half was Japanese? Do you remember anything else about school in terms of atmosphere?

No, I don't think it was really that much, prejudice because (?). I remember, if there was, I would have certainly remembered it. But-oh there might have been some odd instances but, I would say it's (?).

Do you recall anything in particular about, say the life at Powell Street at that time? (?).

(?) you know, because I was pause no-I don't think we had any.

At one time I had a whole bunch of Strathcona students go to the 語学校(language school) on Alexander Street . Are you one of the (?)?

Yes yes, and I went to Japanese school every day after I was done.

Do you-are Japanese children are getting together all the time and isolated from the other students, so we're mixed up the Strathcona, so.

Is this at Strathcona? Oh, well I think we really mixed very well, but as it is-as it was, because there was Orientals, that there would be groups of Orientals together but, no, I used to-especially with the other kids too, and especially the ones that were in the same class. And the Chinese, was-didn't get along, so there was fight one day, and next day they would fight, and expect certain (?), but on the whole, (?). And, I really don't remember any specific unpleasantness at that time.

Do you remember (?)?

Yes.

Going to the (?).

Yes, oh yes, mother and I would go to David Spener and Hudson’s Bay. (?) shopping at David Spencer.

What was your feeling when war came on and had to (?).

Just going to change tapes here.

Okay. Loud clattering and movement in the background makes overlapping voices undistinguishable and unintelligible.

...So the expectations you had for your wife, and (?), then Loud background noise and changing of tapes.

We're just putting bars. We need a bit more volume so like you're very loud.

Well, what else would you like me to say?

Long pause. I think, we're about-okay, let's do that, Patterson again. We missed that.

Yes, Mr. Patterson was our principal at our school. He was a really wonderful person, I guess he was almost perfect as a principal, and a person. Very, very understanding. Very compassionate. And, one thing that really stuck in my mind is that I was (?) system.

And, one day, he said to me, Oh, I think we should always do this for Japanese students, because he says, I never, in all my years of teaching, have ever had this strong Japanese students, because they are so well behaved, he said, I’m really proud. And, I have not forgotten that. I don't think you find a teacher or a school with that (?). That's one of the best things I remember was the principal. Naturally, most of the teachers were very nice, they're understanding, even after the war started, they were the same, they never changed.

What sort of ambitions or dreams did you have when you finished your grade 8?

Well, let's put it this way. My parents had plans for (?), so when I finished Strathcona , I was to attend Britannia High , and then possibly UBC . I don't know what to assume, but they wanted me to get a nice education. So, (?) I just had grade 8 education, and then I (?) United Church missionaries started a correspondence class which eventually was recognized as a high school. So, I'm going back to the evacuation. I think what really bothered me was, my father was quite ill. In fact, he was in the hospital when the war started. And up until then, he was saying how good he was treated in the hospital by the doctors and the nurses, so good. And December 7 came, he was very very (?) and the (?) changed, and they said he just doesn't want to stay there because he was so uncomfortable, and he knew that they were-they sort of thought that he was the enemy. And I guess that he must have (?) stopped (?), such as the case, and that he didn't want to stay there very much longer, but then I don't know exactly how much longer he stayed. Shortly after that I guess he got discharged and came home, and he's not really up to doing anything because he-(?) his heart and so, when the evacuation started, my mother insisted that we remain in Vancouver as long as we can, and so he said that's fine, as long as we try and keep (?). It wasn't until (?) October we finally got evacuated, but they sent my father in an ambulance to Tashme . I was saying we (?), before mother and I, and so they left. So my mother and I to pack up and clean up all that was to be done.

Which meant my mother had to pay up the bills (?) and then she and I, we packed all the stuff in the house, which they had lived in for-oh, let's see, must have been probably (?) let's see. So, many many things had accumulated, and I remember mother and I, we stayed half the night packing, and packing the things that we were going to send to the storage, because we couldn't take everything. And, so a little bit of time there, they came, and we get on the train and go to Tashme. Goodness, we (?), and my mother (?) a terrible (?) when we went to the train station. She and the RCMP , understand she must have made some type of comment or did something-I can't remember what she said, but I know that she was mad. And she just told them something in broken English. So that really had an effect on me, and why a person who's sick have to be moved such a way that pause and why it's so unnecessary and my dad didn't do anything wrong, and I think that really-not so much for myself, but I felt in my heart, and even my mother too, because (?) incapable (?). Anyways, soon as he got to Tashme, he had a temporary hospital there, just a small one, and-I can't remember how long he was in there for. Anyways, we got there and got a room in the old barn, (?) barns. They (?) upstairs, downstairs and we had a corner downstairs, and that room all the-(?) inside the room because it just (?) into it, to the (?). And so, Difficult to hear Irene. And you know, that small of a room-one little bed, one single bed close together, the kitchen compartment is just a small little corner, and the dresser and then she had a sewing machine, and a few chairs. You could hardly move, because it was so crowded. And the next (?), and so, (?), and you could hear a pin drop, it's so (?). (Difficult to hear Irene.) My father being ill, and then having to be sent to the camp, in an ambulance, it was something. So then after that, there were (?) healthy.

And so that's the reason why after 4 years now, decided I think (?) go to Japan because he just couldn't see himself moving out East and starting all over. And by this time my mother was not too well either so both of them couldn't (?) and we thought if we moved to Japan, we could get a house there, and we used to go and visit his (?), so that when he does, he gets to stay (?). Difficult to hear Irene. Recording device moves so Irene's sentences very difficult to hear. He could know all this happen to him, and he was very fit. Because he was naturalized Canadian, and he had lived in this country all those years. Deep inside, he wanted to stay here. But he had no choice. Because it would either be, get out and move out East or move to Japan. He just picked the best (?) of the situation. He (?) to Japan (?)perhaps should have made mistake and (?). All those years, (?) come back here.

How was it like for you to go to Japan?

Well, I had been there quite a few times before when I was quite young for holiday. So it was different this time because you couldn’t stay here, it was a different time. I didn't exactly come home (?), but (?) get a job, and Difficult to hear Irene. I decided to work for a Japanese company, doing an interpretation job. Especially when you work for a company and you have to have some (?), I mean, you can't just speak the language and be able to interpret properly. I tried (?), I wasn't very happy anyways because all Japanese speaking (?) spoke English, and I just felt I have to get up, and (?) English somewhere, and I (?) and I remember (?). So there were quite a few of the Americans who were in the same situation as I was. And some Canadian Nisei. Also, Difficult to hear Irene. mixed marriages and that were Japanese-Germans, whether they were multi-racial, and they said (?). So I was much happier (?). Pause. After I came back, I wanted to have my parents move to here. Because they requested they come back here. Unfortunately at that time, especially-they had repatriated.

They had renounced their citizenship. And so I wrote (?) just said they couldn’t accept the application, so then I have the moment for a visit, and actually Difficult to hear Irene. I think they had given her permit to come for a visit, but, unfortunately she became ill, and she never made (?). (A motorcycle in the background drowns out Irene's voice.) And so after my mother passed away, it was just my father, so then I wrote back to Ottawa, saying-now this is-this is in the late '50s. And I thought by this time they should Difficult to hear Irene. At first, well, they didn't think that it's possible that I kept at it and I said that I'm the only mixed kin, and that my father was (?). So anyways, after 3 or 4 months, they agreed under compassionate case, they weren't doing that right, but because they felt that it was a compassionate case that (?). But, unfortunately my father passed away before (?). But I think deep inside, he knew that he was-would be able to come back here because apparently his act, he had things packed to bring back here. I guess he made arrangements to (?) probably in (?). And so I guess it was hard. He was quite happy and anticipated to come back here. I was very disappointed. To this day, it's really unfortunate because (?) quite healthy and very very happy. Perhaps I (?) Difficult to hear Irene. He would have been quite old but...

How did you manage to get back?

I- Recording device moves so Irene is unintelligible. And they said that since I was Canadian-born that if I have sponsors, I can be able to come back. And so, my father moved to go back (?) Difficult to hear Irene. And my father said going back was a mistake and Difficult to hear Irene. . So we (?) to my husband’s father and he said of course, by all means. And just went ahead and that's the only way to come back and that was in December 1949.

And you went there, August '46?

When we left Canada ? Yes, August the second, 1946. And I returned-I think I came here in '57, so '49.

So August, (?) for recovery. People in Ottawa said... understanding how to deal with this kind of bureaucracy and government.

Yes, I guess, (?) very, and trying to get my parents (?). Well I (?) that says they finally acknowledge that they would accept his application to re-enter. And that under the compassionate case Difficult to hear Irene. father couldn't live to see it. To hear that, or even to come back here. I guess (?) just (?). And, when I was in Japan , I contacted the embassy to get my passport.

And your father was naturalized American (?).

Yes, they said that both my mother and father, they were naturalized Canadian, but they wished their rights (?). But I guess that's the difference between Canadian-born.

Can we get a context of how you dealt with the government and turns out (?) parents and all that? What you had to do and (?)?

That would be when we were in Tashme .

When (?).

Well, pause when I was in Vancouver , I don’t think there was much that you couldn’t get. But (?) in Tashme , (?) my father, in regards to what he had-3 properties, (?). One on Powell Street , and our residence and (?), so it was good. Horn in the background drowns out Irene's sentence. And also at the time we had a lot of things stored in the borrowing storage rooms. And Irene speaks unintelligibly. right until the time I think the payment was until end of '46. So, those days, about-some of the things that were there Interviewer shuffles their papers near the recording device and drowns out Irene's voice. (?) and because we were (?) to Japan, we were allowed to take whatever. But it would (?) so (?) with us. But one thing-I don't have too much recollection, it's just here and there, because I was brought up, and I-anything to do with business, and anything they were talking about or discussing, that was my years. I don’t know how you were brought up and-but that was no place for children, and so (?) payed attention. But before we (?) to Tashme,

Irene speaks quietly, making her difficult to hear. My dad would (?) take the sails (?), and the first time I saw the water (?) and because (?), and I didn't know how much it was, the amount. And because I think he had it all figured out, how much he was making. And whatever he got, he (?). He kept saying cash this cheque because he said if I have cash I have (?) said, Never Irene emphasizes the word 'never' cash this cheque. That's the end of that because I don't know what he did. Whether he insisted or whether he may have cashed it later, or what he did with it, I don't know. I have no- I didn’t (?) as soon as I never asked what did you do with the cheque, because it was (?) business. That's all I remember him saying. Phone rings loudly in the background. Oh, I've got to get (?).

(?)?

To Tatsuo Should we ask (?)? Interviewer loudly shuffles papers close to the recording device. Long pause.

(Kira?) we might want to change tape (?) tape, on that tape. We’ve got 30 minutes. We got 28 minutes on this, and we only got 7 minutes on the other tape. So (?)?

Okay, maybe just (?).

You want to just (?) until the very end?

Uh, let's see, just a moment. long pause. Okay, I'd like to know, Irene, how long and that kind of thing you accommodated and returned to Canada. In your case, in what ways did you arrive at the reason, to want to come back to Canada, to want come back to Vancouver? Come back to the west coast? Why not some other (?)? Did you ever think of that?

Well, I think it's because when I did come back, I came back under a sponsorship, and I felt that Interviewer moves their papers too close to the recording device, muffling Irene's sentence. helped me to get back, and I should at least stick with it for a while. And I helped out a little bit but in the meantime, I married my husband, so therefore Irene chuckles. he-like his parents, were in the greenhouse business in Haney . And my husband wanted to pursue that. And to do that, well, he thought that (?) place because his father was in Haney and so he Irene speaks too quietly, becoming very difficult to hear. But, instead of going back to Haney, perhaps he (?) further out, a lot of rain, you know, and he got (?) White Rock , (?).

So they came out and (?) decided to (?). Perhaps if I stayed single I may have pursued some other (?).

You mentioned about going back to Japan and you have a job, it's a company, and you like it, so you have certain kind of adjustment problems when you went back to Japan. My question is that, when you came back to Canada, and even though you know people there, still you have a different experience with other people you know who continue to stay in Canada, and you left Canada and came back again. But did you find any difference between yourself and other people quite close to you? Let's-do you understand what I...?

Yes, yes. No, not really. I don't know. Perhaps if I had stayed there longer I may have felt some difference but I really didn't...

Someone sneezes in the background. So you are like (?) your old folks, kind of feeling you had?

More or less. More or less. Long pause. Rustling movement in the background. What? Recording cuts out momentarily at 00:42:09. Recording device gets set up and muffles Irene's voice. Don't say it. Say 仕方がない. (It can’t be helped.)

Yeah. Voices in the background drown out Irene's sentence. Recording device cuts out temporarily at 00:42:29. Recording device gets set up and moved around repeatedly.

Okay? Great. Okay, we're pause we're rolling.

Give us an introduction of yourself and your birthday, and what it is that you (?) childhood.

Yup, okay. My name is Takaaki Tsuyuki. (?) after the (evacuation?). Born on January the 24th Irene whispers the correct birthdate to Norm 26th. Yeah. 1924. In Haney . Loud clashing of plates makes Norm's sentence unintelligible. Went to (?) School, which had about 2/3 was Japanese, the other was Caucasian. And...

If I stand correct, your father delivered you?

Yeah, yeah.

Interviewer speaks unintelligibly.

Oh, you mean he being a midwife. Those days the (?) the wife was in trouble (?) to call the doctor you had to go to the (?) centre in (?). But, he would (?) this ranch in Vernon , and heard cow, the cattle barn. The midwife. That's why neighbors with children went out to help all the time, so (?).

Your father was quite a remarkable person.

Well, I guess in those days, you had to. It cost less money.

Let's see now. Childhood-school, I guess my friends were (?) English, I used to spend a lot of time with Caucasians. I would-after school I would go and (?) so I loved (?), and (?). So, from public school, about maybe a (?) Irene whispers something in the background. And whatever you like (?) teacher (?) the classes, that happened, and then we went to high school and it's quite different. But, managed to keep up barely (?) 12 students I guess I was, 8, 10 at the time, so it wasn't bad. But I see (?) first-year student (?) school (?), after a while students (?), especially (?). So the middle of some other school (?), so after one thing Interviewer's paper's shuffle making Norm difficult to hear. Started- (Recording cuts out.

Recording starts and someone is speaking unintelligibly in the background. We went right to school, and (?), we’re going to go on a walk, but (?) to school and I made off. So in last day of grade, I think it's grade 11, any Japanese that was going to school didn't have to (?). So, after 2 months or something like that, I go back to school and the teacher would say, just Difficult to hear Norm. And managed to pass something, and we stayed up-we had (?), and the (?), Difficult to hear Norm. school, so I took my brothers to school and (?) school, so then we became (?) first (?) went into (?) said oh we should go (?), which was in Lillooet . So, (?) water, (?), so, built a house there, and moved (?) to build a house. Norm talks quietly, making him difficult to hear.

And, Pearl Harbour came. Interviewer talks quietly, making him difficult to hear.

Yeah.

What was your reaction to that?

Well, it was, you know, curfew-curfew, you know, like (?) so they-I guess it became that (?). So, you know like, we weren't allowed to own a car, radio, camera, nothing like that. So, we had (?) in the car in Tashme to transfer food to (?) to, and we hired a driver, an Caucasian, drove to us to keep (?) for help. What happened was, we were able to take this truck over to Lillooet. So, then we transferred-(?) transferred truck over to (?), so I drove into town, (?), seemed (?) time, Difficult to hear Norm. into town, you know, because we got a license. I got (?) got a ride (?). But then, we loaded (?) kind of truck and then we sent the truck up, 100 miles, so-and truck (?).

As you were saying when you were in school, Interviewer's voice drowns out and becomes unintelligible.

Yeah, but no, no-through its-Japanese, (?) education in our school.

Are you Interviewer's question becomes unintelligible because papers are shuffled near the recording device, drowning them out.

Well, there was, but-it was much smart kids (?).

But generally pause it's whatever there's (?), Norms speaks quietly, making him unintelligible. So, I mean, as far as (?) concerned it wasn't too much-just, amongst our age (?).

Are you the first born in your family?

Yeah, I'm the first born of the family of 5-or, 5 kids, I'm the second one. Three below me are boys. One above is a girl. And...

So when you were-coming back to papers move in the background muffling part of the interviewer's sentence heard that news about Pearl Harbour , (?)?

Well, it didn't mean too much, it was just (?). And then (?), it was just like this, like all of us conscripted into the Army, where we (?) ranch thing (?). Pause. And then, it was (?) back in the Army, they used to get detention paper and serve it to the Arabs and then you had to bring it back. That happened about 3 times. So when this Hastings Park came up, I was going to the dentist one day, this RCMP came and says, You have to go to Hastings Park, and I spoke, Why do I have to go to Hastings Park? I said my father served during the First World War. Well you have to go. Then he says, Well that’s what I was told, so,. Then the next day, me and my father went to see the RCMP but (?) took, he said 3 or 4 hours (?). And then what happened was the evacuation order came that they then says, It's your Norms speaks quietly as he quotes his father, making him unintelligible. So, in Haney , we got about 2 really old cars, and who ever that was able to put-jump inside the car, (?). So, as far as the evacuation order on Pearl Harbour, it didn't have as much of like a-

Interviewer speaks unintelligibly.

Yeah, well, you could say Norm talks quietly so his sentence is unintelligible.

Interviewer speaks unintelligibly again.

Well, father knows best, so I guess I just keep quiet.

Did he ever talk about it? His feelings...?

Well, he was bitter, and I mean, (?) evacuation time, (?) he wanted it, that's all. But I guess the pause verbal agreement that he made with his White friends, next door neighbour, and so he was able to (?) this store, (?). But he told (?) that it was Norm talks quietly so his sentence is difficult to hear that was (?).

And then for two years he was (?), in the third year he went to, he says (?), pause which I had (?), he says, Well I Norm speaks unintelligibly. dollars, and you pay that amount of money, and then you go back, you give me ten dollars. (?) so it was quite a (?). But 1950, '51, he came back, he went to the same place, he says, Oh, can you help me. He says, We're back now, what about the (proposal I gave you?)? He shook hands, was happy about it, see. But same issue, (?) didn't answer. Here, sweat is pouring out of his face, face is red, sweat is coming out the (?), threw water on the table. But after, what happened was Norm whispers making his sentence unintelligible. start a life, he says, Ellis, Ellis is wife, makes him coffee by the way, right away. Pause But then, I didn't know that he went to-he put in a bid to somebody else. He put in a bid of 8,000 dollars, (?) because he asked the waiter, he's at (?), he says, Huh? He says, Yeah yeah yeah. That's just our (?). The big thing about 13, 000 dollars, so it's just by chance. It Difficult to hear Norm. costs price. But then he's asked us just to see the surface value (?). So if he got that (?), if it came back to (?). But he had this idea that he'd come back, and Difficult to hear Norm. . So he settled, Haney being 30 miles from where I grew up, in the side (?) in Surrey . So after about a week of poking around and seeing (?), he settled in Surrey. But that's where (?). Even though Haney-which loves Haney (?) back in-he's director.

Did your father just said, Okay and then Interviewer speaks too quietly, making him unintelligible.

Yeah.

And his friend, here, they gave him short (?).

Yeah yeah. It was those days-

Interviewer interrupts Norm They came back in (?).

Yeah yeah. Those days, I mean that was like fathers. He's obvious (?). Norm chuckles. You know, to my thinking now, just shake hands, but those days I guess it was...

But Interviewer is unintelligible.

Nope. I mean it was good deal in 19-what was it, 1940's or something. (?) tomato Difficult to hear Norm. No fruits or vegetable came from United States , so Canada had to rely on what it used. So, because what he's putting in seed, that's why he couldn't-

Interviewer is far away from the recording device so his sentence is unintelligible.

What? Those days, I mean, shake hands, that's all they needed. But, legally it's not that (?), right?

Interviewer asks question unintelligibly.

Well, it is I guess. I came 16 years old Norms mumbles to himself 15 years, I think. They did go back to Japan to see some people that he came to Canada with-he was only 9 . But the second time I was only 6. People in Japan, (?) about how he does, because-not that he had to bring, build everything up from scratch. I remember going (?) winter time, he would clear the land, and had strawberries, and then he would go out to work. (?) soil in the spring, summer-he would be out. And then fall he would come back-tend to his strawberries because he got strawberry plant that he (?) in plastic, just slumps and it was too small, and I (?), so he managed to pass me (?), said the seeds over there, so I go inside the the home and put the (?) in some clay to back it up (?), and then I-that's almost what I did, to see our (?) stumps, our long (?) stumps, and then Difficult to hear Norm. . So, that's what (?) was like, blast, (?) burn and (?).

So what happened was that you came back (?).

Yeah yeah in '51.

Interviewer speaks unintelligibly.

Yeah. Father didn't want to go back into greenhouse so he went to the strawberries. And raspberries. And, he lived until 1983, until age 93 and then (?). And 1951, me and my brother-in-law started (?), so we (?). And the land is (?) in Haney, so well, Haney-there is one advantage of living in the frost. (?) in the frost. So, I guess in his way of doing it, he had strawberries first, and then raspberries, and then added trees. So, and then he went back to (?). So, I guess, getting into to-was quite Difficult to hear Norm. strawberries and raspberries here just-(?) hear about it Difficult to hear Norm.

And you carried on that did you? You carried on that business?

Yeah, until I got too old and then the government (?) Norm mumbles something to himself. Son, he's looking after, he's (?), which (?). Long pause So it's, you know, like-I was in Ottawa .

I wanted to see the archives, so Norm talks quietly to himself and is difficult to hear on the recording.

Microfilm?

Huh? Yeah, microfilm. So they had Norm talks quietly is difficult to hear. White family, (?) growing potatoes, so they were (?) when we got there Norm talks quietly and is difficult to hear that's why we get about 3 weeks-3 months later. So, some of the things that all went down, (?) communication, secondary (?), custodian (?). So now, got it, but we just see that's all (?) except the (?).

What did you find out Motorcycle in the background drowns out the rest of the interviewer's question.

Yeah well, what the property sold for, and then the verbal agreement that he made-I'm sure it's (?), between him and (?), it shouldn't Norm mumbles quietly and is difficult to hear. he'll be charged, again, realty, wherever it was, (?).

So all that is in, everything in the archives?

Yeah, yeah.

What else did you find?

Archives? And even if they do (?) Custodian .

Were there any surprises about that?

No, no because- Norm abruptly stops his sentence and his voice drops to a whisper that is very difficult to decipher. printed (?). Now, I don't know if they're charged something or (?), and then (?) someone had brought it over and (?) 4 times, but then maybe their name was (?). Difficult to hear Norm. (Nishishige?) their daughter tried to find them. Norm continues to mumble quietly and is not picked up on the recording. But I've seen, I think (?). So that thing is auctioned you know, That's my furniture! says, You're furniture hardly looks just (?), it's an auction there. There was no (?), and the auctioneer takes so much, (?) takes so much, moving takes so much-they get their share, and what’s leftover, you get. And then these are things that (?) to sell. Unintelligible mumbling amongst people in the background.

All of the things that happened in the past, but then what do you think that redress needs-meant for you? Because your parents had established farm, and lost. Do you think it was any concerning thing, or satisfaction after the-

Well, I wish my father-father and mother would like to seen the encampments. But Norm talks quietly, making him very difficult to hear.

So, like-okay, instead of them getting something, but then that there's-he's-what's Denise and Leslie? Norm struggles to find the right words. They're-huh?

Irene interrupts Norm to help him. Your nephew and niece.

Yeah, my nephew and niece, they were small then, and they thought life was like that, see. So they didn't know any better, but then they're getting this (?) thousand instead of father getting it, they're getting it so, I guess it's fair. But, who needs it more? Probably these younger people. Now government Norm speaks quietly and is difficult to hear. less so that (?).

Oh, I-

Norm cuts Tatsuo off No you don't have to Norm laughs.

Well, when we talked with your wife, in her case, she had aspiration to go to high school, and university and...but in your case, did you have anything like that? Or you more or less follow your father's path of working and you follow. Cups clash loudly in the background. I wonder...

Norm chuckles. Yeah, well...

And-

Yeah, well see, like when you go to school, okay, you take either French or Latin. You take French, well that's ordinary course that you take. Latin, well you could be a doctor or something. So I took Latin.

Oh really.

But I didn't have-that's a dead language.

(?) Tatsuo and Norm laugh. What did you do (?) this?

Yeah yeah. Well, then, you know, maybe you don’t need that but then at that time you have to take one either course, but then I was going to-in the village, while I was going to Japanese school twice a week, five (?) four to six o’clock twice a week. So, I was able to speak Japanese a little bit, so not-like I get by but, I don't know. Maybe I should have studied more. But, as far as (?) concerned, my brothers, they gave up scholarships. But then there's two of them that got scholarships, you know, like Dentistry, like the University of Alberta . But then you go to Alberta , and sure, there was a dentist university, but what do-you already got so many dentists, only a few doctors Difficult to hear Norm. or something like that. But then it wasn't that hard. My brother's finished high school and-3 weeks, 3 Difficult to hear Norm. Take course marks, because (?). But, it-one time he brought a big (?), I got (?) skipped and I (?) so he got-and I hit him. Norm chuckles. Long pause

Is that it? Is it? Is that-?

Okay. Thank you very much. Recording cuts out